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Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan
| Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9853] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 06:00 |
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At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would worship
Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence movement.
Here is just one example:
The flag for the emperor of Japan is a 16 petals chrysanthemum flower.
http://thechinadesk.tripod.com/taiwans_day_of_decision.htm
The national flag of Taiwan Independence movement is an eight petals
chrysanthemum flower.
Less petals symbolized lower ranking in Japanese custom.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery ;jsessionid=3wjk223v971p5?method=4&dsname=Wikipedia+Imag es&dekey=Taiwan+independence+flag.png&gwp=8&sbid =lc01b
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement andthe Fascist Japan [message #9858 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 06:29 |
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Yu wrote:
> At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would worship
> Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence movement.
>
> Here is just one example:
> The flag for the emperor of Japan is a 16 petals chrysanthemum flower.
> http://thechinadesk.tripod.com/taiwans_day_of_decision.htm
>
>
> The national flag of Taiwan Independence movement is an eight petals
> chrysanthemum flower.
> Less petals symbolized lower ranking in Japanese custom.
>
> http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery ;jsessionid=3wjk223v971p5?method=4&dsname=Wikipedia+Imag es&dekey=Taiwan+independence+flag.png&gwp=8&sbid =lc01b
>
It's more political reason than really worshiping Fascist Japan.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9864 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 07:32 |
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Yu wrote:
> At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
worship
> Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
movement.
>
> Here is just one example:
> The flag for the emperor of Japan is a 16 petals chrysanthemum
flower.
> http://thechinadesk.tripod.com/taiwans_day_of_decision.htm
>
Wonder how come yuauang dont say Buddhism vegetarian symbol is
worshiping Nazi.
> The national flag of Taiwan Independence movement is an eight petals
> chrysanthemum flower.
> Less petals symbolized lower ranking in Japanese custom.
>
>
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery ;jsessionid=3wjk223v971p5?method=4&dsname=Wikipedia+Imag es&dekey=Taiwan+independence+flag.png&gwp=8&sbid =lc01b
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9868 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 07:38 |
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It is US that is worshiping Fascist Japan. All White niggers in this
newsgroup are worshiping Fascist Japan.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9905 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 08:44 |
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On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would worship
>Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence movement.
How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9909 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 08:45 |
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lobert lo wrote:
> Yu wrote:
> > At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
worship
> > Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
movement.
> >
> > Here is just one example:
> > The flag for the emperor of Japan is a 16 petals chrysanthemum
flower.
> > http://thechinadesk.tripod.com/taiwans_day_of_decision.htm
> >
> >
> > The national flag of Taiwan Independence movement is an eight
petals
> > chrysanthemum flower.
> > Less petals symbolized lower ranking in Japanese custom.
> >
> >
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery ;jsessionid=3wjk223v971p5?method=4&dsname=Wikipedia+Imag es&dekey=Taiwan+independence+flag.png&gwp=8&sbid =lc01b
> >
>
> It's more political reason than really worshiping Fascist Japan.
I used to think that politics was the reason too, but it's deeper than
just politics.
Take for example, Li Deng Hui, the big name in Taiwan Independence
movement, he claimed that Diao Yu Tai island belongs to Japan. This is
very unpopular in Taiwan. There is no political point to score.
Everybody knows chrysanthemum flower is the symbol of the Japanese
Emperor. It's like the union jack, an unmistakable link to the British
crown.
There are hundreds of way to design a flag, picking chrysanthemum
flower is not an accident.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9914 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 08:55 |
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That's because those Communist loving ,Mao worshipping scumbags will do
anything to make up stories to discredit the democracy in Taiwan.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9916 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 09:00 |
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Steve Sundberg wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
worship
> >Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
movement.
>
> How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
> been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
> militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
> Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in Japan
but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the Fascist
belief in Japan.
In Chinese society chrysanthemum flower is largely use in funeral and
praying to the dead and various dieties. Very strange choice if it had
to link to Japan.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9923 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 09:27 |
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The Great Cornhorlio wrote:
> That's because those Communist loving ,Mao worshipping scumbags will
do
> anything to make up stories to discredit the democracy in Taiwan.
Worshiping Japan is only common only among the elite within the Taiwan
independence movement. Most ordinary Taiwanese have little affection
for Japan.
Every year in Taiwan, there is a day commemorating the defeat of Japan
called the "liberation day" (Oct 25).
On this day leaders of Taiwan Independence movement will invariably try
their very best not to show up on any ceremony. Why? Because it
commemorate the defeat of Japan.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #9931 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 09:37 |
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> In Chinese society chrysanthemum flower is largely use in funeral and
> praying to the dead and various dieties. Very strange choice if it
had
> to link to Japan.
correction: Very strange choice for a national flag if it had no link
to Japan.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement andthe Fascist Japan [message #9961 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 10:48 |
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Yu wrote:
> Steve Sundberg wrote:
>
>>On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
>
> worship
>
>>>Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
>
> movement.
>
>>How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
>>been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
>>militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
>>Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
>
>
> No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in Japan
> but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the Fascist
> belief in Japan.
>
> In Chinese society chrysanthemum flower is largely use in funeral and
> praying to the dead and various dieties. Very strange choice if it had
> to link to Japan.
>
I think it's Italians that associate chrysanthemum flower with death.
Chrysanthemums had been cultivated in Chinese gardens for more than
2,500 years before they were first exhibited in England in 1795. The
ancient Chinese named the Chrysanthemum ("chu hua"), to be their
official Flower for October, and also the official badge of the Old
Chinese Army. Mums were considered one of the four Chinese noble plants…
along with bamboo, the plum, and the orchid, and therefore the lower
class Chinese were not permitted to grow them in their gardens.
Visiting Buddhist monks brought the chrysanthemum to Japan in AD 400.
Japanese emperors so loved this flower that they sat upon chrysanthemum
thrones, and kikus, chrysanthemums in Japanese, were featured on the
Imperial Crest of Japan.
Even today, the chrysanthemum is a symbol of the sun, and the orderly
unfolding of the mum's petals denotes perfection. One of their
traditions is to put a single chrysanthemum petal on bottom of a wine
glass to sustain a long and healthy life.
This popular perennial's name is derived from the Greek chrysos (gold)
and anthos (flower). In Italy chrysanthemums are associated with death,
so don’t give an Italian girl friend a bouquet of chrysanthemums!
http://www.flowermonthclub.com/history.htm
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10024 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 13:30 |
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you're an idiot!
"lobert lo" <lobert [at] IMH.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d3qh4d$6hn$1 [at] mawar.singnet.com.sg...
> Yu wrote:
> > Steve Sundberg wrote:
> >
> >>On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
> >
> > worship
> >
> >>>Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
> >
> > movement.
> >
> >>How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
> >>been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
> >>militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
> >>Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
> >
> >
> > No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in Japan
> > but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the Fascist
> > belief in Japan.
> >
> > In Chinese society chrysanthemum flower is largely use in funeral and
> > praying to the dead and various dieties. Very strange choice if it had
> > to link to Japan.
> >
> I think it's Italians that associate chrysanthemum flower with death.
>
> Chrysanthemums had been cultivated in Chinese gardens for more than
> 2,500 years before they were first exhibited in England in 1795. The
> ancient Chinese named the Chrysanthemum ("chu hua"), to be their
> official Flower for October, and also the official badge of the Old
> Chinese Army. Mums were considered one of the four Chinese noble plants…
> along with bamboo, the plum, and the orchid, and therefore the lower
> class Chinese were not permitted to grow them in their gardens.
>
> Visiting Buddhist monks brought the chrysanthemum to Japan in AD 400.
> Japanese emperors so loved this flower that they sat upon chrysanthemum
> thrones, and kikus, chrysanthemums in Japanese, were featured on the
> Imperial Crest of Japan.
>
> Even today, the chrysanthemum is a symbol of the sun, and the orderly
> unfolding of the mum's petals denotes perfection. One of their
> traditions is to put a single chrysanthemum petal on bottom of a wine
> glass to sustain a long and healthy life.
>
> This popular perennial's name is derived from the Greek chrysos (gold)
> and anthos (flower). In Italy chrysanthemums are associated with death,
> so don’t give an Italian girl friend a bouquet of chrysanthemums!
>
> http://www.flowermonthclub.com/history.htm
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement andthe Fascist Japan [message #10059 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 15:29 |
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anything wrong ?
GG wrote:
> you're an idiot!
>
> "lobert lo" <lobert [at] IMH.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:d3qh4d$6hn$1 [at] mawar.singnet.com.sg...
>
>>Yu wrote:
>>
>>>Steve Sundberg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
>>>
>>>worship
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
>>>
>>>movement.
>>>
>>>
>>>>How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
>>>>been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
>>>>militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
>>>>Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
>>>
>>>
>>>No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in Japan
>>>but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the Fascist
>>>belief in Japan.
>>>
>>>In Chinese society chrysanthemum flower is largely use in funeral and
>>>praying to the dead and various dieties. Very strange choice if it had
>>>to link to Japan.
>>>
>>
>>I think it's Italians that associate chrysanthemum flower with death.
>>
>>Chrysanthemums had been cultivated in Chinese gardens for more than
>>2,500 years before they were first exhibited in England in 1795. The
>>ancient Chinese named the Chrysanthemum ("chu hua"), to be their
>>official Flower for October, and also the official badge of the Old
>>Chinese Army. Mums were considered one of the four Chinese noble plants�
>>along with bamboo, the plum, and the orchid, and therefore the lower
>>class Chinese were not permitted to grow them in their gardens.
>>
>>Visiting Buddhist monks brought the chrysanthemum to Japan in AD 400.
>>Japanese emperors so loved this flower that they sat upon chrysanthemum
>>thrones, and kikus, chrysanthemums in Japanese, were featured on the
>>Imperial Crest of Japan.
>>
>>Even today, the chrysanthemum is a symbol of the sun, and the orderly
>>unfolding of the mum's petals denotes perfection. One of their
>>traditions is to put a single chrysanthemum petal on bottom of a wine
>>glass to sustain a long and healthy life.
>>
>>This popular perennial's name is derived from the Greek chrysos (gold)
>>and anthos (flower). In Italy chrysanthemums are associated with death,
>>so don抰 give an Italian girl friend a bouquet of chrysanthemums!
>>
>>http://www.flowermonthclub.com/history.htm
>
>
>
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10435 ] |
So, 17 April 2005 23:51 |
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Yu wrote:
> Steve Sundberg wrote:
> > On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
> worship
> > >Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
> movement.
> >
> > How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
> > been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
> > militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
> > Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
>
> No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in
Japan
> but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the Fascist
> belief in Japan.
Um have to disagree with you on this. The flower thing might just be a
japan connection by chance. But Taiwanese business connection with
Japanese rightist is thru the yakuza connection for sure.
>
> In Chinese society chrysanthemum flower is largely use in funeral and
> praying to the dead and various dieties. Very strange choice if it
had
> to link to Japan.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10482 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 04:06 |
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charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> Yu wrote:
> > Steve Sundberg wrote:
> > > On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >At first I couldn't believe that any modern day Taiwanese would
> > worship
> > > >Fascist Japan, but it is true for the Taiwanese independence
> > movement.
> > >
> > > How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It
had
> > > been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
> > > militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
> > > Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
> >
> > No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in
> Japan
> > but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the
Fascist
> > belief in Japan.
>
> Um have to disagree with you on this. The flower thing might just be
a
> japan connection by chance. But Taiwanese business connection with
> Japanese rightist is thru the yakuza connection for sure.
>
I have said at the begining of this thread that their behaviour is hard
to explain, but obverving their leaders such Jin Mei Ling, Li Deng Hui
from different angles I can't help arriving at the conclusion that
these people have a perverted love affair for Japanese militarists.
Here is the views from a Taiwan authors on the chrysanthemum flag :
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/chu3.html
Emotionally, the Taiwan "independence" elite is dependent on their
former colonial master, Japan, into whose arms they will fling
themselves if their divorce from China becomes a reality. Taiwan
"independence" is merely a way station en route to their final
destination, Tokyo. Even their proposed "Republic of Taiwan" flag
is a fascimile of the Japanese Emperor's "Chrysanthemum Flag."
Taiwan separatists would be jubilant if upon achieving
"independence" they are promptly re-colonized by Japan.
-----------
http://www.ocn-miami.com/color_ocn/ocn_htmls/liu/liu_365_sa_ l1.htm
chrysanthemum flag and the sympolism behind;
16 Petals = Japan Emperor
14 petals = Japan Royal house.
8 petal = Sevants to the imperial house hold.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement andthe Fascist Japan [message #10519 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 07:31 |
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Guru Google wrote:
>
> Wonder how come yuauang dont say Buddhism vegetarian symbol is
> worshiping Nazi.
>
>
Pls allow me to address that:
The Buddhism "crooked cross" was in use long before the Nazi's
used their copied version of the symbol used by the Romans.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10521 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 07:33 |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:06:19 -0700, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
>...Emotionally, the Taiwan "independence" elite is dependent on their
> former colonial master, Japan......
Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence also
actively hate the Japanese.
In other words, nah. You don't know what you are talking about.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement andthe Fascist Japan [message #10525 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 07:44 |
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Yu wrote:
>
> http://www.ocn-miami.com/color_ocn/ocn_htmls/liu/liu_365_sa_ l1.htm
> chrysanthemum flag and the sympolism behind;
>
> 16 Petals = Japan Emperor
> 14 petals = Japan Royal house.
> 8 petal = Sevants to the imperial house hold.
>
I had a similar discussion thread with Guru Google last year
about the coincidental similarity of the "4 split heart" flag
used by TI movement to the Japanese Imperial chrysanthemum.
I learned from a History Channel program that the Imperial
chrysanthemum was engraved on all Japanese rifles used in WW2.
And so, that was the JPese soldier's drive: to fight and die for
their emperor; and that it was glorious to do so.
So that is the link btwn Fascist JP and the imperial family: the
military right wing used the JPese people obedience to the
imperial family to subjugate them. The imperial family either was
too weak to stop them, or went allow willingly, we'll never know.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10542 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 09:25 |
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Jim Walsh wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:06:19 -0700, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
>
> >...Emotionally, the Taiwan "independence" elite is dependent on
their
> > former colonial master, Japan......
>
> Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence
also
> actively hate the Japanese.
>
> In other words, nah. You don't know what you are talking about.
Have you met with their leadership yet?
If not, you don't know what you are talking about.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10544 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 09:32 |
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TSU members paid respect to the Japanese shrine which is full of WWII
war criminals and LTH said Japan does not have to apologize for its
invasion of China and Jin Me-ling, a renown TIer said Japan never
invaded China. And you are a FUCKING TI asslicker denied all the facts
here!!!
Jim Walsh wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:06:19 -0700, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
>
> >...Emotionally, the Taiwan "independence" elite is dependent on
their
> > former colonial master, Japan......
>
> Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence
also
> actively hate the Japanese.
>
> In other words, nah. You don't know what you are talking about.
>
> --
> Love, Jim
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10550 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 10:21 |
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Ace Sinica wrote:
> Guru Google wrote:
>
> >
> > Wonder how come yuauang dont say Buddhism vegetarian symbol is
> > worshiping Nazi.
> >
> >
>
> Pls allow me to address that:
>
> The Buddhism "crooked cross" was in use long before the Nazi's
> used their copied version of the symbol used by the Romans.
I realy doubt Nazi did research to know what swastika look like.
The point is -- dont say 2 symbol look alike and theyre connected. The
USA use 5-angle star in its army tanks. USSR also use it, except one is
black/white and one is red. Any conclusion?
Or, both GB Chinese and Japanese write the word "country" the same.
Lets see what yuauang can conclude on that.... :^))
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10582 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 15:59 |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:25:12 -0700, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
> Jim Walsh wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:06:19 -0700, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
>>
>> >...Emotionally, the Taiwan "independence" elite is dependent on their
>> > former colonial master, Japan......
>>
>> Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence also
>> actively hate the Japanese.
>>
>> In other words, nah. You don't know what you are talking about.
>
> Have you met with their leadership yet? If not, you don't know what you
> are talking about.
It is no longer true that the leadership directs politics in Taiwan.
Taiwan is a free society.
When I arrived in 1987, the stated policy of the government was to re-take
the Mainland soon and the people were (mostly) afraid to say that the
Emperor was naked.
Today the political parties court the voters and set policy accordingly.
For example, the leadership of the KMT dare not propose accepting "1C2S"
because virtually none of the voters support it. So, the KMT's current
policy is "no unification for the indefinite future, Taiwan independence
is possibility down the line". With that political slogan, the Pan-Blues
held the DPP to a draw in the last legislative election.
--
Love, Jim
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10583 ] |
Mo, 18 April 2005 16:00 |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:32:23 -0700, abianchen [at] my-deja.com thought
carefully and wrote:
> TSU members paid respect to the Japanese shrine which is full of WWII
> war criminals.......
It is routine for CCP leaders to pay respects to Mao in Mainland China.
Would you care to comment?
>> Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence also
>> actively hate the Japanese.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10701 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 00:21 |
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Ignorant as usual! Pan blues rejected Taiwan Independence.
Jim Walsh wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:25:12 -0700, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
>
>
> > Jim Walsh wrote:
> >> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:06:19 -0700, Yu thought carefully and
wrote:
> >>
> >> >...Emotionally, the Taiwan "independence" elite is dependent on
their
> >> > former colonial master, Japan......
> >>
> >> Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence
also
> >> actively hate the Japanese.
> >>
> >> In other words, nah. You don't know what you are talking about.
> >
> > Have you met with their leadership yet? If not, you don't know what
you
> > are talking about.
>
> It is no longer true that the leadership directs politics in Taiwan.
> Taiwan is a free society.
>
> When I arrived in 1987, the stated policy of the government was to
re-take
> the Mainland soon and the people were (mostly) afraid to say that the
> Emperor was naked.
>
> Today the political parties court the voters and set policy
accordingly.
> For example, the leadership of the KMT dare not propose accepting
"1C2S"
> because virtually none of the voters support it. So, the KMT's
current
> policy is "no unification for the indefinite future, Taiwan
independence
> is possibility down the line". With that political slogan, the
Pan-Blues
> held the DPP to a draw in the last legislative election.
>
> --
> Love, Jim
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10702 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 00:23 |
|
Mao was one of worst dictators in history. And you are one of worst TI
asslickers.
Jim Walsh wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:32:23 -0700, abianchen [at] my-deja.com thought
> carefully and wrote:
>
> > TSU members paid respect to the Japanese shrine which is full of
WWII
> > war criminals.......
>
> It is routine for CCP leaders to pay respects to Mao in Mainland
China.
> Would you care to comment?
>
> >> Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence
also
> >> actively hate the Japanese.
>
>
> --
> Love, Jim
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----
|
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10758 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 05:04 |
|
Jim Walsh wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:25:12 -0700, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
>
>
> > Jim Walsh wrote:
> >> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:06:19 -0700, Yu thought carefully and
wrote:
> >>
> >> >...Emotionally, the Taiwan "independence" elite is dependent on
their
> >> > former colonial master, Japan......
> >>
> >> Those of my friends who must actively support Taiwan independence
also
> >> actively hate the Japanese.
> >>
> >> In other words, nah. You don't know what you are talking about.
> >
> > Have you met with their leadership yet? If not, you don't know what
you
> > are talking about.
>
> It is no longer true that the leadership directs politics in Taiwan.
> Taiwan is a free society.
Unique feature of Taiwan politics is leaders do not practice what they
pledge.
To win votes they say one set of policies and after election they go
back to their original doctrine. These Japanese fascist worshipers in
the Taiwan Independence movement never let ordinary people know their
true color.
They will make claims such as "comfort women" were volunteers.
They will not protest the atrocity against Taiwanese during Japanese
occupation.
They do not help these old comfort women/ forced labor fight for
compensation from the Japanese Gov. These are some examples.
> When I arrived in 1987, the stated policy of the government was to
re-take
> the Mainland soon and the people were (mostly) afraid to say that the
> Emperor was naked.
>
> Today the political parties court the voters and set policy
accordingly.
> For example, the leadership of the KMT dare not propose accepting
"1C2S"
> because virtually none of the voters support it. So, the KMT's
current
> policy is "no unification for the indefinite future, Taiwan
independence
> is possibility down the line". With that political slogan, the
Pan-Blues
> held the DPP to a draw in the last legislative election.
Ribbish!
You are twisting facts to win argument.
Abain/Li deng Hui wanted Taiwan Independence. They wanted to change any
name that has "China" on it. They wanted a new constitution that cut
all ties with Mainland China.
The results was a defeat for Abian and Li Deng Hui.
The opposition controls Parlaiment.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10762 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 05:17 |
|
Ace Sinica wrote:
> Yu wrote:
>
> >
> > http://www.ocn-miami.com/color_ocn/ocn_htmls/liu/liu_365_sa_ l1.htm
> > chrysanthemum flag and the sympolism behind;
> >
> > 16 Petals = Japan Emperor
> > 14 petals = Japan Royal house.
> > 8 petal = Sevants to the imperial house hold.
> >
>
> I had a similar discussion thread with Guru Google last year
> about the coincidental similarity of the "4 split heart" flag
> used by TI movement to the Japanese Imperial chrysanthemum.
"4 split hearts" is an eight petals chrysanthemum.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10763 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 05:22 |
|
Ace Sinica wrote:
> Guru Google wrote:
>
> >
> > Wonder how come yuauang dont say Buddhism vegetarian symbol is
> > worshiping Nazi.
> >
> >
>
> Pls allow me to address that:
>
> The Buddhism "crooked cross" was in use long before the Nazi's
> used their copied version of the symbol used by the Romans.
Look carefully, the fascist swastika and the Buddhist swastika point in
different directions. They are not meant to be the same.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10798 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 07:09 |
|
On 16 Apr 2005 00:00:30 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Steve Sundberg wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
>> been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
>> militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
>> Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
>
>No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in Japan
>but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the Fascist
>belief in Japan.
Even the idea of "Emperor worship" predates the establishment of
militarism and Fascism in Japan. In was, more or less, codified in
1899 with the promulgation of the Meiji Constitution. The curriculum
of the Kokutai-no-Hongi was first introduced into the Japanese school
system in the 1920s ... again, before the establishment of militarism
as a political power in Japan.
Fact is, there were many more millions of people who worshipped
Emperor Showa who were NOT facists than there were who consciously
followed that political belief. To believe otherwise is to belief that
fascism existed in China during the imperial dynasties when it too was
believed that the Emperor (or Empress) was "next to god".
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10800 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 07:11 |
|
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:30:04 +0200, "GG" <GG [at] new.com> wrote:
>you're an idiot!
Nice retort, although there is nothing at all of substance that would
support your side of the debate.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10809 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 07:56 |
|
Steve Sundberg wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2005 00:00:30 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Steve Sundberg wrote:
> >> On 15 Apr 2005 21:00:54 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> How is the Japanese imperial insignia connected to fascism? It had
> >> been used for centuries prior to the development of fascism and
> >> militarism in Japan and, IIRC, has never been co-opted for use by
> >> Japanese neo-nationalists even to this day.
> >
> >No doubt the chrysanthemum symbol predate emergence of Fascism in
Japan
> >but worshiping the emperor has been an important part of the Fascist
> >belief in Japan.
>
> Even the idea of "Emperor worship" predates the establishment of
> militarism and Fascism in Japan. In was, more or less, codified in
> 1899 with the promulgation of the Meiji Constitution. The curriculum
> of the Kokutai-no-Hongi was first introduced into the Japanese school
> system in the 1920s ... again, before the establishment of militarism
> as a political power in Japan.
>
> Fact is, there were many more millions of people who worshipped
> Emperor Showa who were NOT facists than there were who consciously
> followed that political belief. To believe otherwise is to belief
that
> fascism existed in China during the imperial dynasties when it too
was
> believed that the Emperor (or Empress) was "next to god".
You are saying that worshiping Emperor predate Fascisism and Chinese
also worship emperor and were not fascist therefore Worshiping Emerror
is not an important praxtice of Japanese Fascism.
That is typical case of compartmentalized thinking.
Here is another funny example.
A white horse is a horse.
A black horse is not a white horse, therefore a black horse is not a
horse.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #10931 ] |
Di, 19 April 2005 15:48 |
|
On 18 Apr 2005 22:56:37 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>That is typical case of compartmentalized thinking.
>
>Here is another funny example.
>
>A white horse is a horse.
>A black horse is not a white horse, therefore a black horse is not a
>horse.
But by your thinking because an apple is fruit and an orange is also
fruit, an orange is really an apple.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement andthe Fascist Japan [message #11024 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 04:55 |
|
Yu wrote:
> Ace Sinica wrote:
>
>>
>>I had a similar discussion thread with Guru Google last year
>>about the coincidental similarity of the "4 split heart" flag
>>used by TI movement to the Japanese Imperial chrysanthemum.
>
>
> "4 split hearts" is an eight petals chrysanthemum.
>
Yes, I am aware of that and did point it out last year. It was
the creators of that flag that called it "4 split hearts", yet it
was supposed to mean unification of the 4 "ethnic" groups!
My first thought was, how can split hearts represent unity?
Besides, the sides of a real heart shaped object should show more
curvature, not straight sides.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #11026 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 05:30 |
|
Steve Sundberg wrote:
> On 18 Apr 2005 22:56:37 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >That is typical case of compartmentalized thinking.
> >
> >Here is another funny example.
> >
> >A white horse is a horse.
> >A black horse is not a white horse, therefore a black horse is not a
> >horse.
>
> But by your thinking because an apple is fruit and an orange is also
> fruit, an orange is really an apple.
No I say both are fruits just like Japanese militarists and the leaders
in Taiwan Independence movement are fascists. They are fascists not
merely becuse they worship the Japanese Emperor, they also claimed that
comfort women (sex slaves) were volunteers etc.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement andthe Fascist Japan [message #11027 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 05:32 |
|
Yu wrote:
> Ace Sinica wrote:
>
>>Pls allow me to address that:
>>
>>The Buddhism "crooked cross" was in use long before the Nazi's
>>used their copied version of the symbol used by the Romans.
>
>
> Look carefully, the fascist swastika and the Buddhist swastika point in
> different directions. They are not meant to be the same.
>
Yes, I know, that's why I said the Nazi swastika is a copy of the
Roman crooked/bent cross.
There's more to the fact that the Buddhist bent cross is the
mirror image of the Nazi swastika: the swastika is usually angled
at 45 degrees. If you look at the Nazi arm bands, as well as the
swastika on WW2 era German air force planes' tails, you will see
the swastika tilted 45 degrees.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #11034 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 06:34 |
|
In article <1113967843.711957.322450 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Yu <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Steve Sundberg wrote:
>> On 18 Apr 2005 22:56:37 -0700, "Yu" <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >That is typical case of compartmentalized thinking.
>> >
>> >Here is another funny example.
>> >
>> >A white horse is a horse.
>> >A black horse is not a white horse, therefore a black horse is not a
>> >horse.
>>
>> But by your thinking because an apple is fruit and an orange is also
>> fruit, an orange is really an apple.
>
>No I say both are fruits just like Japanese militarists and the leaders
>in Taiwan Independence movement are fascists. They are fascists not
>merely becuse they worship the Japanese Emperor, they also claimed that
>comfort women (sex slaves) were volunteers etc.
What exactly is the definition of a "fascist"?
What's that? You had no definition in mind but were just
using the word as an insult? Ahhhhh.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #11050 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 07:38 |
|
On 20 Apr 2005 04:34:34 GMT, bmoore [at] blackhole.nyx.net (Bill Moore)
wrote:
>In article <1113967843.711957.322450 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>Yu <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>No I say both are fruits just like Japanese militarists and the leaders
>>in Taiwan Independence movement are fascists. They are fascists not
>>merely becuse they worship the Japanese Emperor, they also claimed that
>>comfort women (sex slaves) were volunteers etc.
>
>What exactly is the definition of a "fascist"?
>
>What's that? You had no definition in mind but were just
>using the word as an insult? Ahhhhh.
Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority
under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the
opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of
belligerent nationalism and racism.
Technically, wartime Japan was not dictatorially governed. Tojo was
the Prime Minister of a civilian government. Unlike Germany, elections
continued throughout the war years until 1944; in fact, it was Tojo's
loss of electoral support that precipitated his resignation as Prime
Minister in 1944.
Then again, the idea of Emperor-worship has nothing to do with fascism
except as imagined by those people wishing a return to "the old days".
As I've stated elsewhere, the religious practice predates Japan's
period of militarism by several decades; certainly before Japanese
imperialism became the modus operandi of the country's
ultra-nationalists in the 1930s.
However, the Japanese government certainly did suppress political
opposition, exercised strict censorship, and had centralized the
Japanese economy to suit the militarist's wartime aims. And it is
pretty obvious that one of the marks of Japanese imperialism was its
treatment of other Asians in an often, and to put it mildly,
condescending manner. "Comfort women" just scrape the surface of
Japanese behavior in the "liberated" Asian territories that were
occupied between 1932-1945.
In these manner of things, Japan's wartime government was fascist.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #11074 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 09:29 |
|
In article <4265e87d.296336734 [at] news1.mm.com>,
Steve Sundberg <deejayREMOVETHE [at] CAPITALLETTERSmm.com> wrote:
>On 20 Apr 2005 04:34:34 GMT, bmoore [at] blackhole.nyx.net (Bill Moore)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <1113967843.711957.322450 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>>Yu <yugaung [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>No I say both are fruits just like Japanese militarists and the leaders
>>>in Taiwan Independence movement are fascists. They are fascists not
>>>merely becuse they worship the Japanese Emperor, they also claimed that
>>>comfort women (sex slaves) were volunteers etc.
>>
>>What exactly is the definition of a "fascist"?
>>
>>What's that? You had no definition in mind but were just
>>using the word as an insult? Ahhhhh.
>
>Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority
>under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the
>opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of
>belligerent nationalism and racism.
>
>Technically, wartime Japan was not dictatorially governed. Tojo was
>the Prime Minister of a civilian government. Unlike Germany, elections
>continued throughout the war years until 1944; in fact, it was Tojo's
>loss of electoral support that precipitated his resignation as Prime
>Minister in 1944.
>
>Then again, the idea of Emperor-worship has nothing to do with fascism
>except as imagined by those people wishing a return to "the old days".
>As I've stated elsewhere, the religious practice predates Japan's
>period of militarism by several decades; certainly before Japanese
>imperialism became the modus operandi of the country's
>ultra-nationalists in the 1930s.
>
>However, the Japanese government certainly did suppress political
>opposition, exercised strict censorship, and had centralized the
>Japanese economy to suit the militarist's wartime aims. And it is
>pretty obvious that one of the marks of Japanese imperialism was its
>treatment of other Asians in an often, and to put it mildly,
>condescending manner. "Comfort women" just scrape the surface of
>Japanese behavior in the "liberated" Asian territories that were
>occupied between 1932-1945.
>
>In these manner of things, Japan's wartime government was fascist.
Thanks for the intelligent summary of fascism and wartime Japan.
The reason I asked in the first place was because the OP was claiming
that both the wartime Japanese and the TI leaders are fascists.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #11425 ] |
Fr, 22 April 2005 17:52 |
|
Yu wrote:
> To win votes they say one set of policies and after election they go
> back to their original doctrine. These Japanese fascist worshipers in
> the Taiwan Independence movement never let ordinary people know their
> true color.
> They will make claims such as "comfort women" were volunteers.
> They will not protest the atrocity against Taiwanese during Japanese
> occupation.
> They do not help these old comfort women/ forced labor fight for
> compensation from the Japanese Gov. These are some examples.
The Japanese did not occupy Taiwan as they occupied Nanking. I spoke
with people in Taiwan who did not really object to the Japanese rule
too much. In fact, they spoke of hiding Japanese soldiers and
administrators from Chinese soldiers after the war, feeding them and
giving them new clothes to get home in.
Why? I can't say for sure. But certainly they did not have any reason
to hate them. Otherwise they wouldn't have helped them.
Taiwan survived OK after the mainland glibly turned it over to the
Japanese in 1895. It sounds funny to hear mainlanders now complain that
Taiwan will "run back to Japan" after independence, after the mainland
thoughtlessly cut it loose to Japan in 1895.
I never heard much admiration for Chiang Kai Shek either, although his
son Chiang Ching Kuo seems to be beloved. It was the younger Chiang who
softened the stance on retaking the mainland and began concentrating
efforts on developing Taiwan from within.
It is time the mainland accept the fact that too many years have
passed, and the cultural divide with Taiwan is too deep, to affect a
viable re-unification. It would be like Mexico demanding a bunch of
cowboys and oil barons in Texas re-unite with Mexico.
Speaking to people on mainland, I have heard almost universal hatred
and contempt for Taiwan. I can only conclude it is based on jealousy of
Taiwan's economic success and superior standard of living.
I saw a thread suggesting 2006 would be the year the PRC takes action
against Taiwan, which I thought interesting. My theory is that 2008 is
the year Taiwan will move towards independence, probably announcing it
a week or so before the Olympics.
China would hardly be able to mobilize a war of imperialist aggression
against such a small island with the entire world watching.
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| Re: Strage relationship between Taiwan independence movement and the Fascist Japan [message #11451 ] |
Fr, 22 April 2005 21:04 |
|
Really?! Have you heard During 50 yeasr of Japanese rule in Taiwan,
every 3 years there's uprising against Japanese rule and one time
Japanese government even used poison gas wipe out people at entire
village.
rugggdindv [at] hotmail.com wrote:
> Yu wrote:
>
> > To win votes they say one set of policies and after election they
go
> > back to their original doctrine. These Japanese fascist worshipers
in
> > the Taiwan Independence movement never let ordinary people know
their
> > true color.
> > They will make claims such as "comfort women" were volunteers.
> > They will not protest the atrocity against Taiwanese during
Japanese
> > occupation.
> > They do not help these old comfort women/ forced labor fight for
> > compensation from the Japanese Gov. These are some examples.
>
> The Japanese did not occupy Taiwan as they occupied Nanking. I spoke
> with people in Taiwan who did not really object to the Japanese rule
> too much. In fact, they spoke of hiding Japanese soldiers and
> administrators from Chinese soldiers after the war, feeding them and
> giving them new clothes to get home in.
>
> Why? I can't say for sure. But certainly they did not have any reason
> to hate them. Otherwise they wouldn't have helped them.
>
> Taiwan survived OK after the mainland glibly turned it over to the
> Japanese in 1895. It sounds funny to hear mainlanders now complain
that
> Taiwan will "run back to Japan" after independence, after the
mainland
> thoughtlessly cut it loose to Japan in 1895.
>
> I never heard much admiration for Chiang Kai Shek either, although
his
> son Chiang Ching Kuo seems to be beloved. It was the younger Chiang
who
> softened the stance on retaking the mainland and began concentrating
> efforts on developing Taiwan from within.
>
> It is time the mainland accept the fact that too many years have
> passed, and the cultural divide with Taiwan is too deep, to affect a
> viable re-unification. It would be like Mexico demanding a bunch of
> cowboys and oil barons in Texas re-unite with Mexico.
>
> Speaking to people on mainland, I have heard almost universal hatred
> and contempt for Taiwan. I can only conclude it is based on jealousy
of
> Taiwan's economic success and superior standard of living.
>
> I saw a thread suggesting 2006 would be the year the PRC takes action
> against Taiwan, which I thought interesting. My theory is that 2008
is
> the year Taiwan will move towards independence, probably announcing
it
> a week or so before the Olympics.
>
> China would hardly be able to mobilize a war of imperialist
aggression
> against such a small island with the entire world watching.
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