Sprinkler Systems
Uhaul move
Lawn care
Roses and trees
Ford Parts
Chrysler Parts
Lake Powell
New IPod Touch Apps
New IPhone Apps
IPhone Apps
IPad Information
IPad Apps
Android APPS
Android Games APPS
Android Systems
Android Tablets APPS and Beyond
Smartphone Apps
Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools
Tablet PC
Car Sharing Car Leasing
Tabler Pc
Fly Fishing
Toyota Cars
Vacation Rentals
Stock market
NYSE
SSE Stock
Freight & Shipping News
Gluten
Lactose
Gout
My Coupon Life
Campgrounds Check
Outdoor
Kitchen Design and Redoo
Bath Remodeling
Palm Springs
Las Vegas Vacation Tipps
Lake Powell Boating
Homes for lease
Electric and green Car Blog
Pearls and diamonds
Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App
Renovation Blog
Condo for rent or lease
Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Truck for Sale
Reconstruction Blog
|
Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » The Chinese Culture
| The Chinese Culture [message #216390] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 10:34 |
|
The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
sophistication not been handed down the generations?
I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
"Looking for China's culture
By Tim Luard, BBC, China
China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
career.
The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
the glories of China's traditional culture.
The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216393 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 12:04 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
> I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>
> I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>
> "Looking for China's culture
>
> By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>
> China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>
> As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>
> Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>
>
> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> career.
>
> The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>
> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
what you said is absolutely true. reflecting on the history of china,
it was a broken country for more than 150 years. when the communist
took over china, it was a country that was bankrupt of ideas and
wealth. china was not producing anything of value except farm produces
during its dying years. the years of warlords when the gun was the main
reason and language, all the aristocracy were either robbed or
bankrupted. then came the communist revolution and the leaders came
from the soldiers and illiterate farmers. and the cultural revolution
complete the destruction of whatever cultured mandarins and aristocracy
that were left.
whatever material relics were either looted or cart away as war
reparations to the west. and many were also burnt and destroyed by the
red guards in the mid 60s.
the china today is a new china. the leadership were men who survived
the harsh cultural revolution, living as farmers and workers. some may
come from the descendants of the rich bourgeiosie and aristocracy but
did not live a life of luxury.
actually, to encounter a refined and well cultured chinese gentleman is
a rarity. they are mostly extinct.
those that are around were either schooled in russia or the west. the
new rich would not have the kind of refinement cultivated through
several generations of the gentry class.
it is a sad thing but this is the reality. but after all the
destruction, a new china is emerging, free from all the old values and
bad habits. it may take another two or three generations for a new
aristocracy to emerge.
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216394 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 12:04 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
> I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>
> I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>
i also post at www.redbeanforum.com
> "Looking for China's culture
>
> By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>
> China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>
> As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>
> Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>
>
> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> career.
>
> The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>
> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216401 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 13:51 |
|
We chinese are a superior race!
mbl* wrote:
> The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
> I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>
> I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>
> "Looking for China's culture
>
> By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>
> China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>
> As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>
> Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>
>
> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> career.
>
> The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>
> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216406 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 14:24 |
|
Hey metta, get back to the Tao and be auspicious again after you read
Tsun Tzu's Art of War.
Choong
mettas_mother1 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> We chinese are a superior race!
>
> mbl* wrote:
>> The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
>> more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
>> is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
>> cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
>> Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
>> of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
>> history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
>> lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
>> have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
>> feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
>> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>>
>> I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
>> at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
>> upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>>
>> I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>>
>> "Looking for China's culture
>>
>> By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>>
>> China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>>
>> As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
>> sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
>> hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>>
>> Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
>> exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>>
>>
>> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
>> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
>> career.
>>
>> The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
>> its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
>> music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>>
>> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>> there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>>
>> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
>
|
|
|
| China Adventures III: (was) The Chinese Culture [message #216409 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 15:11 |
|
On 15 Jun 2006 01:34:31 -0700, "mbl*" <mbplee [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
>more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
>is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
>cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
>Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
>of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
>history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
>lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
>have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
>feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
>sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
>I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
>at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
>upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>
>I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>
>"Looking for China's culture
>
>By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>
>China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>
>As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
>sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
>hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>
>Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
>exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>
>
>So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
>current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
>career.
>
>The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
>its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
>music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>
>But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
>The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
PPP: To meet the people you want first you have to speak their
language (Chinese) and near their level of knowledge in their area of
expertise. And then gain their confidence that you are worth talking
to. There is nothing more frustrating to an intellectual than to
engage in a discuss with someone who clearly knows little about the
subject in as fundamental a matter as the meaning of a word, eg
democracy, free market economy, Ming porcelain. One can't arrive at
any result or derive any benefit in such a discourse. If he wanted to
teach a class he would, so enrol in such a class. Else go to places,
a university for example or a public seminar, and take your chances.
Show interest in his work and ask intelligent questions.
China's revolutionary generation produced a remarkable corp of top
brains from among untutored peasants who went on to defeat the best
military minds the West (KMT's Russian then US advisors) and war
machine could throw at them. They then went on to build modern China
singlehanded. This exercise in unconventional thinking was repeated
during the Cultural Revolution when the schools were closed for ten
years. When the schools reopened, a few poor peasants who had barely
two years of primary education, picked up the pieces and went to
university as late teens or young adults. In the CCTV programs while
I was in Beijing was a story of how one destiitute peasant from the
boondocks became a top heart surgeon. A visiting top American heart
surgeon was impressed enough to spend several hours post-op to debrief
his Chinese collegue so that he could use the procedure in the US.
Another CCTV program was about one of China's top modern artists who
went on to become a professor in the university. I will refer to one
of his paintings in due course (another story) . I myself briefly met
in Singapore a top molecular biologist from China who was thrown into
the field, science, because when the the schools reopened, he was of
the right age for university admission. He was given three months to
prepare for the entrance exams and made it in. He had never seen so
much as a science text book before. But biological science people was
what the government wanted and that was what he was told to study. His
undergrad life was tough but he soon grew to like the subject. On
graduation he was told to study English because he was going to be
sent abroad to do grad studies. He made it with six months to
prepare. He graduated with a PhD in biochemistry from a top US univ.
One can't fake such an achievement, not in a hard science at a
prestigious US univ. His China-born wife had a similar bio and works
with him. There are a lot more such highly improbable but absolutely
true biographies. However, that kind of "uneducated peasant to
university professor" career path is no longer possible as only the
best - the top 5% of China's high school grads ever get into
university and of these only a small fraction go on to do an advanced
degree.
Sidebar: Some crude estimates. Last week 9.7 million high school
grads took the university entrance exams for 1.7 million undergrad
placements. 9.7 million from 1.3 billion is 0.75% a bit low but
could be explained that there are many rural Chinese of this age group
who do not make it beyond primary school. 1.7/9.3 is 18.3% admitted
to post secondary institutions. I don't believe there is a separate
exam for college level institutions. In westen countries between 40%
to 50 % make it into a post secondary institution. The elimination
competition in China is fierce and yet the number of graduates each
year, top brains all, is easily more than a million.
The point above is that no one China gets to the top specialist post
in the arts, sciences and technology on political favoritism.
Considering the gigantic hurdles they had to overcome I wouldn't even
pretend to be anywhere near their level of intellect. There are lots
of such people in every field if you know where to find them. Unlike
westerners they are not into self promotion and are little know
outside their peer circles. The intellectuals and highly cultured
people are out there, oodles of them. They don't talk shop in
restaurants.
Our "Tim Luard, BBC, China" is being ridiculous when
>>But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>>only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>>there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>>the glories of China's traditional culture.
>>
>>The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
he uses overhears restaurant chatter and takes that as a measure of
Chinese intellect. He should be more shocked (but then who is
anymore) at what one can hear in an average western MacDonalds
restaurant. Junior high school barely into their teens using foul
language and openly describing explicit sexual acts as something they
should indulge in. The other talk wold freak out their parents and
teachers. As for adults all we hear are about their home sports
team's performance (aka white man's kungfu equivalent) and some other
inane stuff. Nothing cultured or intellectual.
But Tim does indeed report correctly about kungfu being the talk of
the town. I treasure my copy of "The Contemporary Atlas of China"
ed 1988, ISBN 0-297-79404-3 because it provides very good quick
reference points on many subjects concerning China and is invaluable
as a time capsule of conditions in China some 30 years ago when it was
just opening up. On page 113 "Life in the City/2" is this jewel.
Quote: Entertainment: Although some of China's new young film
directors are winning awards abroad, their"art films" are often box
office failures at home. More popular films are about love, action
and melodrama which fill the cinemas but do not win international
accalim. Some popular films from the west also do well.
Well 30 years later the film scene hasn't changed. And my take on
award arty Chinese films is that they are usually a long litany of
pitiful situations where the hero-heroine endures and survives but
rarely if ever triumphs. This lets the white guys feel superior and
unthreatened. Go from there.
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216410 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 15:22 |
|
redbean wrote:
> mbl* wrote:
> > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> >
> > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> >
> > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> >
>
> i also post at www.redbeanforum.com
> > "Looking for China's culture
> >
> > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> >
> > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> >
> > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> >
> > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> >
> >
> > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > career.
> >
> > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> >
> > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> >
> > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216420 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 15:39 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
products of the
verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
the verbal filter such that one can have
direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
not.
>
> I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>
> I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>
> "Looking for China's culture
>
> By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>
> China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>
> As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>
> Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>
>
> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> career.
>
> The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>
> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216429 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 16:11 |
|
On 15 Jun 2006 06:39:59 -0700, "ltlee1" <ltlee1 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
>He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
>literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
>background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
>difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
>of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
PPP: I managed only to get through 150 pages or so of Gao's book
(English translation). Gave up. Its a little more than a confused
man's rambling diary of his travels through a remote part of China.
There are no philosophical insights, a story line or even a half
decent description (ie even my over active imagination could not
reconstruct the scene) of the places he'd been to. If mainland
Chinese who read the original wonder what earned Gao the Nobel Prize I
agree with them. Not much could have been lost in translation.
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216432 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 15:16 |
|
this fellow is very idiotic to take all such dead-utencils as culture !!!
what is the real culture is the beliefs, which had been overthrown by
communists and replaced by marx's monopolization !!!!
it is very shameful to talk of chinese culture !!!
mbl* wrote:
> The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
> I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>
> I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>
> "Looking for China's culture
>
> By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>
> China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>
> As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>
> Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>
>
> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> career.
>
> The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>
> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216435 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 15:18 |
|
superior in tracing the tail of russian in culture of communism imported ???
mettas_mother1 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> We chinese are a superior race!
>
> mbl* wrote:
>
>>The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
>>more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
>>is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
>>cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
>>Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
>>of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
>>history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
>>lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
>>have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
>>feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
>>sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>>
>>I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
>>at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
>>upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>>
>>I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>>
>>"Looking for China's culture
>>
>>By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>>
>>China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>>
>>As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
>>sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
>>hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>>
>>Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
>>exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>>
>>
>>So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
>>current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
>>career.
>>
>>The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
>>its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
>>music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>>
>>But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>>only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>>there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>>the glories of China's traditional culture.
>>
>>The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
>
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: China Adventures III: (was) The Chinese Culture [message #216438 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 15:30 |
|
yawm !!
nothing representative !!!!
ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> On 15 Jun 2006 01:34:31 -0700, "mbl*" <mbplee [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
>>more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
>>is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
>>cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
>>Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
>>of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
>>history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
>>lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
>>have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
>>feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
>>sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>>
>>I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
>>at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
>>upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>>
>>I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>>
>>"Looking for China's culture
>>
>>By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>>
>>China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>>
>>As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
>>sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
>>hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>>
>>Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
>>exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>>
>>
>>So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
>>current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
>>career.
>>
>>The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
>>its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
>>music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>>
>>But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>>only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>>there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>>the glories of China's traditional culture.
>>
>>The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
>
>
>
>
> PPP: To meet the people you want first you have to speak their
> language (Chinese) and near their level of knowledge in their area of
> expertise. And then gain their confidence that you are worth talking
> to. There is nothing more frustrating to an intellectual than to
> engage in a discuss with someone who clearly knows little about the
> subject in as fundamental a matter as the meaning of a word, eg
> democracy, free market economy, Ming porcelain. One can't arrive at
> any result or derive any benefit in such a discourse. If he wanted to
> teach a class he would, so enrol in such a class. Else go to places,
> a university for example or a public seminar, and take your chances.
> Show interest in his work and ask intelligent questions.
>
> China's revolutionary generation produced a remarkable corp of top
> brains from among untutored peasants who went on to defeat the best
> military minds the West (KMT's Russian then US advisors) and war
> machine could throw at them. They then went on to build modern China
> singlehanded. This exercise in unconventional thinking was repeated
> during the Cultural Revolution when the schools were closed for ten
> years. When the schools reopened, a few poor peasants who had barely
> two years of primary education, picked up the pieces and went to
> university as late teens or young adults. In the CCTV programs while
> I was in Beijing was a story of how one destiitute peasant from the
> boondocks became a top heart surgeon. A visiting top American heart
> surgeon was impressed enough to spend several hours post-op to debrief
> his Chinese collegue so that he could use the procedure in the US.
> Another CCTV program was about one of China's top modern artists who
> went on to become a professor in the university. I will refer to one
> of his paintings in due course (another story) . I myself briefly met
> in Singapore a top molecular biologist from China who was thrown into
> the field, science, because when the the schools reopened, he was of
> the right age for university admission. He was given three months to
> prepare for the entrance exams and made it in. He had never seen so
> much as a science text book before. But biological science people was
> what the government wanted and that was what he was told to study. His
> undergrad life was tough but he soon grew to like the subject. On
> graduation he was told to study English because he was going to be
> sent abroad to do grad studies. He made it with six months to
> prepare. He graduated with a PhD in biochemistry from a top US univ.
> One can't fake such an achievement, not in a hard science at a
> prestigious US univ. His China-born wife had a similar bio and works
> with him. There are a lot more such highly improbable but absolutely
> true biographies. However, that kind of "uneducated peasant to
> university professor" career path is no longer possible as only the
> best - the top 5% of China's high school grads ever get into
> university and of these only a small fraction go on to do an advanced
> degree.
>
> Sidebar: Some crude estimates. Last week 9.7 million high school
> grads took the university entrance exams for 1.7 million undergrad
> placements. 9.7 million from 1.3 billion is 0.75% a bit low but
> could be explained that there are many rural Chinese of this age group
> who do not make it beyond primary school. 1.7/9.3 is 18.3% admitted
> to post secondary institutions. I don't believe there is a separate
> exam for college level institutions. In westen countries between 40%
> to 50 % make it into a post secondary institution. The elimination
> competition in China is fierce and yet the number of graduates each
> year, top brains all, is easily more than a million.
>
> The point above is that no one China gets to the top specialist post
> in the arts, sciences and technology on political favoritism.
> Considering the gigantic hurdles they had to overcome I wouldn't even
> pretend to be anywhere near their level of intellect. There are lots
> of such people in every field if you know where to find them. Unlike
> westerners they are not into self promotion and are little know
> outside their peer circles. The intellectuals and highly cultured
> people are out there, oodles of them. They don't talk shop in
> restaurants.
>
> Our "Tim Luard, BBC, China" is being ridiculous when
>
>>>But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>>>only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>>>there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>>>the glories of China's traditional culture.
>>>
>>>The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
>
>
> he uses overhears restaurant chatter and takes that as a measure of
> Chinese intellect. He should be more shocked (but then who is
> anymore) at what one can hear in an average western MacDonalds
> restaurant. Junior high school barely into their teens using foul
> language and openly describing explicit sexual acts as something they
> should indulge in. The other talk wold freak out their parents and
> teachers. As for adults all we hear are about their home sports
> team's performance (aka white man's kungfu equivalent) and some other
> inane stuff. Nothing cultured or intellectual.
>
> But Tim does indeed report correctly about kungfu being the talk of
> the town. I treasure my copy of "The Contemporary Atlas of China"
> ed 1988, ISBN 0-297-79404-3 because it provides very good quick
> reference points on many subjects concerning China and is invaluable
> as a time capsule of conditions in China some 30 years ago when it was
> just opening up. On page 113 "Life in the City/2" is this jewel.
>
> Quote: Entertainment: Although some of China's new young film
> directors are winning awards abroad, their"art films" are often box
> office failures at home. More popular films are about love, action
> and melodrama which fill the cinemas but do not win international
> accalim. Some popular films from the west also do well.
>
> Well 30 years later the film scene hasn't changed. And my take on
> award arty Chinese films is that they are usually a long litany of
> pitiful situations where the hero-heroine endures and survives but
> rarely if ever triumphs. This lets the white guys feel superior and
> unthreatened. Go from there.
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216441 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 16:58 |
|
ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> On 15 Jun 2006 06:39:59 -0700, "ltlee1" <ltlee1 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> >He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> >literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> >background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> >difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> >of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
>
>
> PPP: I managed only to get through 150 pages or so of Gao's book
> (English translation). Gave up. Its a little more than a confused
> man's rambling diary of his travels through a remote part of China.
> There are no philosophical insights, a story line or even a half
> decent description (ie even my over active imagination could not
> reconstruct the scene) of the places he'd been to. If mainland
> Chinese who read the original wonder what earned Gao the Nobel Prize I
> agree with them. Not much could have been lost in translation.
Actually, the book is supposed to be read in Chinese. According to his
"production notes," Gao did not actually wrote it. He spoke to a
microphone and then listen to it again and again until he was
satisfied. A lot of word tricks are based on phonics as well as Chinese
characters.
Appreciating the book is to appreciate his mind, a mind, and what is
in it. One has to give up rationality.No human mind is totally
rational, so his book is not totally rational. Theoretically, every
human mind, dispite being irrational and chaotic, still has truth,
benevolence and beauty if it is presented in the right way. Apparently,
Gao convinced the Nobel prize committee that he had succeeded in the
endeavor.
Theory is one thing, practice is another thing. Some parts are great,
the other are water torture. I can't finished his book either. I forced
myself two third of the Chinese edition. I simply don't have the
acquired tastes. An analogy, some asians enjoy dog meat. Most
westerners could not bring themselves to eat and appreciate those
dishes.
|
|
|
| Re: China Adventures III: (was) The Chinese Culture [message #216444 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 17:07 |
|
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:30:40 +0800, lechergod <lechergod [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>yawm !!
>nothing representative !!!!
(Paraphrased. I can't remember the exact quote).
As Pierre Trudeau, former PM of Canada once said to an opposition
heckler who used the phrase "I don't get it" once to often.
"Patience sir. Patience. Eventually it will come even to you."
The meaning is that the opposition member was too slow witted. I can
only hope that your wits aren't any slower. But one must always hope.
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216446 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 17:23 |
|
I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
his cause.
These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
decadent and evil West.
I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
new revolutionary ones fit in.
(But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
feudalism.)
Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
it deserves.
ltlee1 wrote:
> mbl* wrote:
> > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
> In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
>
> For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
>
> In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> products of the
> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> the verbal filter such that one can have
> direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
>
> I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> not.
>
> >
> > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> >
> > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> >
> > "Looking for China's culture
> >
> > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> >
> > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> >
> > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> >
> > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> >
> >
> > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > career.
> >
> > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> >
> > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> >
> > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: China Adventures III: (was) The Chinese Culture [message #216455 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 18:01 |
|
ha ha ha
this communists' dog can only cut and paste as knows not what what is
copied !!!!
>>nothing representative !!!!
is all the wit, idiotic moron !!!!
it conclude everything, retarded moron !!!
ppp [at] yaqhoo.com wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:30:40 +0800, lechergod <lechergod [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>yawm !!
>>nothing representative !!!!
>
>
> (Paraphrased. I can't remember the exact quote).
>
> As Pierre Trudeau, former PM of Canada once said to an opposition
> heckler who used the phrase "I don't get it" once to often.
>
> "Patience sir. Patience. Eventually it will come even to you."
>
>
> The meaning is that the opposition member was too slow witted. I can
> only hope that your wits aren't any slower. But one must always hope.
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216480 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 22:11 |
|
Quoting kqurtyyhar,
"It'll take another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the
connosiuers and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to
the level
it deserves."
Picking up from this quote, I feel that it will take much more than
another generation to achieve the civilization and culture of the
Mandarins, as we know it from literature. It will probably take another
10 generations of peace and wealth and progress to get back to that
level of Chinese sophisticated culture. Etiquette, and sophistication,
and courtesy and refined manners and traditions are not built up
through the "nouveau riche" even after 3 or 4 generations. It usually
comes from "old money" and with several generations of traditions and
sophistication. Perhaps that all died out with Mao's "1,000 flowers
blooming"?
But some of these families escaped and survived and may be scattered
over the face of the earth. To rebuild these refined cultured
civilization, there must be an effort made to revive it through learned
institutions backed fully by the people and the government. But is it
possible to go back on the "Time Machine"? Or will the new efforts be
made for a Chinese culture to fit in to the 21st Century? Or has the
flowering of the 1,000 blooms killed that forever? And all we are left
with is the flotsam? There is very little evidence of that cultured and
stylized charm and courtesies of the days of the Mandarin remaining in
the present day Chinese behavior today? Sad!
kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com wrote:
> I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> his cause.
>
> These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> decadent and evil West.
>
> I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> new revolutionary ones fit in.
>
> (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> feudalism.)
>
> Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> it deserves.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > mbl* wrote:
> > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> >
> > In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> > Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> > not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> > appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> > degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> >
> > For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> > He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> > literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> > background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> > difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> > of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> >
> > In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> > without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> > approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> > products of the
> > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> > Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> > easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> > achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> > the verbal filter such that one can have
> > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> >
> > I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> > not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> > then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> > not.
> >
> > >
> > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > >
> > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > >
> > > "Looking for China's culture
> > >
> > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > >
> > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > >
> > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > >
> > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > >
> > >
> > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > career.
> > >
> > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > >
> > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > >
> > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216487 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 22:40 |
|
kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com wrote:
> I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> his cause.
>
> These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> decadent and evil West.
>
> I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> new revolutionary ones fit in.
>
> (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> feudalism.)
>
> Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> it deserves.
Agree with the reasoning in general.
However, I would not include Mao into the group. Rather, the
destruction inflicted by the Japanese Imperial Army before and during
WWII was more extensive.
For example, a certain groups of society ladies in China were
discussing how to turn their umbrellas into musical intruments some
time during early 1930s. No. They were not talking about printing the
musical notes on the umbrellas. They were discussing what material
would make the sound of rain drops hitting an opened umbrella most
pleasant and musical. So, they might carry one kind of umbrella during
light rain and another kind during heavy rain. How about the lenght of
the umbrella and the distances between the ribs? May be they could
alter them and made the umbrella kind of a xylophone. The umbrella
could also be turned around and around to produce music.
Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > mbl* wrote:
> > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> >
> > In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> > Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> > not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> > appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> > degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> >
> > For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> > He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> > literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> > background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> > difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> > of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> >
> > In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> > without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> > approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> > products of the
> > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> > Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> > easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> > achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> > the verbal filter such that one can have
> > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> >
> > I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> > not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> > then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> > not.
> >
> > >
> > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > >
> > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > >
> > > "Looking for China's culture
> > >
> > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > >
> > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > >
> > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > >
> > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > >
> > >
> > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > career.
> > >
> > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > >
> > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > >
> > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216492 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 22:48 |
|
Quoting ltlee,
"Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed."
Please elaborate! It would be interesting to learn of your views on
this aspect of history on the culture of the Chinese people.
ltlee1 wrote:
> kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> > for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> > three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> > even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> > intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> > his cause.
> >
> > These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> > and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> > of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> > reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> > The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> > decadent and evil West.
> >
> > I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> > composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> > a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> > new revolutionary ones fit in.
> >
> > (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> > today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> > in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> > feudalism.)
> >
> > Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> > another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> > and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> > it deserves.
>
>
> Agree with the reasoning in general.
> However, I would not include Mao into the group. Rather, the
> destruction inflicted by the Japanese Imperial Army before and during
> WWII was more extensive.
>
> For example, a certain groups of society ladies in China were
> discussing how to turn their umbrellas into musical intruments some
> time during early 1930s. No. They were not talking about printing the
> musical notes on the umbrellas. They were discussing what material
> would make the sound of rain drops hitting an opened umbrella most
> pleasant and musical. So, they might carry one kind of umbrella during
> light rain and another kind during heavy rain. How about the lenght of
> the umbrella and the distances between the ribs? May be they could
> alter them and made the umbrella kind of a xylophone. The umbrella
> could also be turned around and around to produce music.
>
> Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
> initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > mbl* wrote:
> > > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> > >
> > > In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> > > Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> > > not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> > > appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> > > degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> > >
> > > For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> > > He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> > > literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> > > background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> > > difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> > > of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> > >
> > > In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> > > without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> > > approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> > > products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> > > Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> > > easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> > > achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> > > the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> > >
> > > I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> > > not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> > > then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> > > not.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > > >
> > > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > > >
> > > > "Looking for China's culture
> > > >
> > > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > > >
> > > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > > >
> > > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > > >
> > > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > > career.
> > > >
> > > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > > >
> > > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > > >
> > > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216495 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 22:58 |
|
ltlee1 wrote:
> kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> > for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> > three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> > even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> > intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> > his cause.
> >
> > These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> > and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> > of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> > reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> > The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> > decadent and evil West.
> >
> > I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> > composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> > a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> > new revolutionary ones fit in.
> >
> > (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> > today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> > in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> > feudalism.)
> >
> > Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> > another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> > and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> > it deserves.
>
>
> Agree with the reasoning in general.
> However, I would not include Mao into the group.
Is that because no one you know was directly affected by any of the
awful things he did?
> Rather, the
> destruction inflicted by the Japanese Imperial Army before and during
> WWII was more extensive.
>
> For example, a certain groups of society ladies in China were
> discussing how to turn their umbrellas into musical intruments some
> time during early 1930s. No. They were not talking about printing the
> musical notes on the umbrellas. They were discussing what material
> would make the sound of rain drops hitting an opened umbrella most
> pleasant and musical. So, they might carry one kind of umbrella during
> light rain and another kind during heavy rain. How about the lenght of
> the umbrella and the distances between the ribs? May be they could
> alter them and made the umbrella kind of a xylophone. The umbrella
> could also be turned around and around to produce music.
>
> Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
> initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > mbl* wrote:
> > > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> > >
> > > In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> > > Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> > > not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> > > appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> > > degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> > >
> > > For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> > > He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> > > literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> > > background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> > > difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> > > of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> > >
> > > In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> > > without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> > > approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> > > products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> > > Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> > > easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> > > achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> > > the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> > >
> > > I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> > > not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> > > then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> > > not.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > > >
> > > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > > >
> > > > "Looking for China's culture
> > > >
> > > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > > >
> > > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > > >
> > > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > > >
> > > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > > career.
> > > >
> > > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > > >
> > > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > > >
> > > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216496 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 22:59 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> Quoting kqurtyyhar,
> "It'll take another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the
> connosiuers and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to
> the level
> it deserves."
>
> Picking up from this quote, I feel that it will take much more than
> another generation to achieve the civilization and culture of the
> Mandarins, as we know it from literature. It will probably take another
> 10 generations of peace and wealth and progress to get back to that
> level of Chinese sophisticated culture. Etiquette, and sophistication,
> and courtesy and refined manners and traditions are not built up
> through the "nouveau riche" even after 3 or 4 generations. It usually
> comes from "old money" and with several generations of traditions and
> sophistication. Perhaps that all died out with Mao's "1,000 flowers
> blooming"?
What was the past must remain the past and we certainly do not want to
go backward in time. We must develop new culture for the
twentieth-first century onward and don't look backward for the old.
>
> But some of these families escaped and survived and may be scattered
> over the face of the earth. To rebuild these refined cultured
> civilization, there must be an effort made to revive it through learned
> institutions backed fully by the people and the government. But is it
> possible to go back on the "Time Machine"? Or will the new efforts be
> made for a Chinese culture to fit in to the 21st Century? Or has the
> flowering of the 1,000 blooms killed that forever? And all we are left
> with is the flotsam? There is very little evidence of that cultured and
> stylized charm and courtesies of the days of the Mandarin remaining in
> the present day Chinese behavior today? Sad!
No, it's not sad, but only good. We must not live in the Confucious
period and practice the same rituals as 2,500 years ago. Mao Zedong
was right, cut off the old stuff and kill it off before people continue
to live in the past. There is no refinement in old mandarin etiquette.
>
> kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> > for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> > three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> > even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> > intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> > his cause.
> >
> > These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> > and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> > of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> > reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> > The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> > decadent and evil West.
> >
> > I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> > composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> > a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> > new revolutionary ones fit in.
> >
> > (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> > today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> > in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> > feudalism.)
> >
> > Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> > another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> > and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> > it deserves.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > mbl* wrote:
> > > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> > >
> > > In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> > > Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> > > not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> > > appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> > > degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> > >
> > > For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> > > He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> > > literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> > > background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> > > difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> > > of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> > >
> > > In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> > > without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> > > approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> > > products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> > > Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> > > easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> > > achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> > > the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> > >
> > > I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> > > not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> > > then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> > > not.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > > >
> > > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > > >
> > > > "Looking for China's culture
> > > >
> > > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > > >
> > > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > > >
> > > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > > >
> > > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > > career.
> > > >
> > > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > > >
> > > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > > >
> > > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216497 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 23:01 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> Quoting ltlee,
> "Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
> initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed."
>
> Please elaborate! It would be interesting to learn of your views on
> this aspect of history on the culture of the Chinese people.
Take a look at Iraq. And the JIA was more brutal.
Most people could not have impractical sophistication on their mind.
>
> ltlee1 wrote:
> > kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > > I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> > > for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> > > three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> > > even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> > > intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> > > his cause.
> > >
> > > These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> > > and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> > > of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> > > reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> > > The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> > > decadent and evil West.
> > >
> > > I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> > > composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> > > a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> > > new revolutionary ones fit in.
> > >
> > > (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> > > today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> > > in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> > > feudalism.)
> > >
> > > Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> > > another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> > > and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> > > it deserves.
> >
> >
> > Agree with the reasoning in general.
> > However, I would not include Mao into the group. Rather, the
> > destruction inflicted by the Japanese Imperial Army before and during
> > WWII was more extensive.
> >
> > For example, a certain groups of society ladies in China were
> > discussing how to turn their umbrellas into musical intruments some
> > time during early 1930s. No. They were not talking about printing the
> > musical notes on the umbrellas. They were discussing what material
> > would make the sound of rain drops hitting an opened umbrella most
> > pleasant and musical. So, they might carry one kind of umbrella during
> > light rain and another kind during heavy rain. How about the lenght of
> > the umbrella and the distances between the ribs? May be they could
> > alter them and made the umbrella kind of a xylophone. The umbrella
> > could also be turned around and around to produce music.
> >
> > Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
> > initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > mbl* wrote:
> > > > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> > > >
> > > > In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> > > > Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> > > > not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> > > > appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> > > > degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> > > >
> > > > For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> > > > He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> > > > literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> > > > background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> > > > difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> > > > of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> > > >
> > > > In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > > direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> > > > without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> > > > approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> > > > products of the
> > > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> > > > Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> > > > easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> > > > achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> > > > the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> > > >
> > > > I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> > > > not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> > > > then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> > > > not.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > > > >
> > > > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Looking for China's culture
> > > > >
> > > > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > > > >
> > > > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > > > >
> > > > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > > > >
> > > > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > > > career.
> > > > >
> > > > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > > > >
> > > > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > > > >
> > > > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216498 ] |
Do, 15 Juni 2006 23:05 |
|
ltlee1 wrote:
> mbl* wrote:
> > Quoting ltlee,
> > "Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
> > initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed."
> >
> > Please elaborate! It would be interesting to learn of your views on
> > this aspect of history on the culture of the Chinese people.
>
> Take a look at Iraq. And the JIA was more brutal.
You're suggesting that there is *any* comparison between the US action
in Iraq and what the Japanese did during WWII? That's not surprising,
since your US bashing often takes the form of absurd exaggeration and
outright lies.
> Most people could not have impractical sophistication on their mind.
>
> >
> > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> > > > for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> > > > three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> > > > even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> > > > intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> > > > his cause.
> > > >
> > > > These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> > > > and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> > > > of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> > > > reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> > > > The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> > > > decadent and evil West.
> > > >
> > > > I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> > > > composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> > > > a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> > > > new revolutionary ones fit in.
> > > >
> > > > (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> > > > today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> > > > in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> > > > feudalism.)
> > > >
> > > > Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> > > > another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> > > > and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> > > > it deserves.
> > >
> > >
> > > Agree with the reasoning in general.
> > > However, I would not include Mao into the group. Rather, the
> > > destruction inflicted by the Japanese Imperial Army before and during
> > > WWII was more extensive.
> > >
> > > For example, a certain groups of society ladies in China were
> > > discussing how to turn their umbrellas into musical intruments some
> > > time during early 1930s. No. They were not talking about printing the
> > > musical notes on the umbrellas. They were discussing what material
> > > would make the sound of rain drops hitting an opened umbrella most
> > > pleasant and musical. So, they might carry one kind of umbrella during
> > > light rain and another kind during heavy rain. How about the lenght of
> > > the umbrella and the distances between the ribs? May be they could
> > > alter them and made the umbrella kind of a xylophone. The umbrella
> > > could also be turned around and around to produce music.
> > >
> > > Japan invaded. And a lot of things changed. Although they were not
> > > initially affected. The mentality of the Chinese people changed.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > mbl* wrote:
> > > > > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > > > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > > > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > > > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > > > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > > > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > > > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > > > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > > > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > > > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > > > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> > > > >
> > > > > In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> > > > > Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> > > > > not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> > > > > appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> > > > > degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> > > > > He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> > > > > literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> > > > > background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> > > > > difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> > > > > of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > > > direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> > > > > without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> > > > > approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> > > > > products of the
> > > > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> > > > > Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> > > > > it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> > > > > easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> > > > > achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> > > > > the verbal filter such that one can have
> > > > > direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> > > > > the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> > > > > What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> > > > > verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> > > > > Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> > > > > kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> > > > > has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> > > > > Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> > > > > himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> > > > > not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> > > > > then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> > > > > not.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > > > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > > > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Looking for China's culture
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > > > > >
> > > > > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > > > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > > > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > > > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > > > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > > > > career.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > > > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > > > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > > > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > > > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > > > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216558 ] |
Fr, 16 Juni 2006 07:18 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
> I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>
> I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>
> "Looking for China's culture
>
> By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>
> China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>
> As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>
> Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>
>
> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> career.
>
> The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>
> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
--------------
I'll try to offer some partial answers to your questions.
1) Assumptions : Tim Luard sees the world flooded with American
culture, then assume that China does not have a good cultural base.
Actually, the two has no connection and should not give rise to his
assumption. Americans have developed pop culture to a high degree
partly by dumbing down -- soft drinks and hamburgers become culture.
When he sees no equivalent Chinese pop culture (actually, there is),
Tim Luard is confused.
2) Aptitude and appreciation : Tim Luard says he could hardly find
anyone able to appreciate Chinese culture. That does not mean China
has no good cultural base. Obviously, pop culture is more easily
digestible than, say, Beijing opera. It depends on whether the
individual wants to give the higher arts a chance, or take the easy way
out and eat a burger at a fast food joint.
3) Cultured Chinese gentleman : Your quest for the elusive cultured
Chinese gentlaman is more interesting than Tim Luard's confusion. Why
can't you find such a creature? Let me put things in perspective.
Today, American pop culture is in ascendant. Yet, can you find the
cultured American gentleman? Actually, there are lots of Americans who
are gentlemen (and women) and cultured. But they're such a disparate
lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
Wakalukong
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216570 ] |
Fr, 16 Juni 2006 10:52 |
|
Quote,"But they're such a disparate
lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
Wakalukong "
You may have a point here but......I do come across "cultured American
Gentleman/woman" fairly often, in TV interviews, in articles written in
the media, in books, on lecture tours, on University campuses, in real
life when I lived in America, people like Magdalene Albright,
Condoleeza Rice, many professors and writers, and they are outstanding
in their own ways. But a Chinese equivalent is rather a rare
creature,(maybe an oldie like LinYuTang), but then perhaps, they might
be found in the Chinese language media, but if they are of that
calibre, they would be translated and pronounced to the world. Out of
1.3 billion people, so little is heard of the genius and brilliance of
outstanding personalities. Why? Surely 1.3 billion people have all not
donned the "grey suits with high collars?" You cannot stereotype what
is in the head! (Sorry I am fishing!)
Wakalukong wrote:
> mbl* wrote:
> > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> >
> > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> >
> > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> >
> > "Looking for China's culture
> >
> > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> >
> > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> >
> > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> >
> > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> >
> >
> > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > career.
> >
> > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> >
> > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> >
> > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
> --------------
>
> I'll try to offer some partial answers to your questions.
>
> 1) Assumptions : Tim Luard sees the world flooded with American
> culture, then assume that China does not have a good cultural base.
> Actually, the two has no connection and should not give rise to his
> assumption. Americans have developed pop culture to a high degree
> partly by dumbing down -- soft drinks and hamburgers become culture.
> When he sees no equivalent Chinese pop culture (actually, there is),
> Tim Luard is confused.
>
> 2) Aptitude and appreciation : Tim Luard says he could hardly find
> anyone able to appreciate Chinese culture. That does not mean China
> has no good cultural base. Obviously, pop culture is more easily
> digestible than, say, Beijing opera. It depends on whether the
> individual wants to give the higher arts a chance, or take the easy way
> out and eat a burger at a fast food joint.
>
> 3) Cultured Chinese gentleman : Your quest for the elusive cultured
> Chinese gentlaman is more interesting than Tim Luard's confusion. Why
> can't you find such a creature? Let me put things in perspective.
> Today, American pop culture is in ascendant. Yet, can you find the
> cultured American gentleman? Actually, there are lots of Americans who
> are gentlemen (and women) and cultured. But they're such a disparate
> lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
> American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
>
> Wakalukong
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216627 ] |
Fr, 16 Juni 2006 17:05 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> Quote,"But they're such a disparate
> lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
> American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
>
> Wakalukong "
>
> You may have a point here but......I do come across "cultured American
> Gentleman/woman" fairly often, in TV interviews, in articles written in
> the media, in books, on lecture tours, on University campuses, in real
> life when I lived in America, people like Magdalene Albright,
> Condoleeza Rice, many professors and writers, and they are outstanding
> in their own ways. But a Chinese equivalent is rather a rare
> creature,(maybe an oldie like LinYuTang), but then perhaps, they might
> be found in the Chinese language media, but if they are of that
> calibre, they would be translated and pronounced to the world. Out of
> 1.3 billion people, so little is heard of the genius and brilliance of
> outstanding personalities. Why? Surely 1.3 billion people have all not
> donned the "grey suits with high collars?" You cannot stereotype what
> is in the head! (Sorry I am fishing!)
>
Americans stand out because America takes the lead. Chinese leaders
will stand out when China takes the lead in the future, and a bowl of
rice will replace hamburgers.
>
>
> Wakalukong wrote:
> > mbl* wrote:
> > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> > >
> > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > >
> > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > >
> > > "Looking for China's culture
> > >
> > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > >
> > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > >
> > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > >
> > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > >
> > >
> > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > career.
> > >
> > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > >
> > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > >
> > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
> > --------------
> >
> > I'll try to offer some partial answers to your questions.
> >
> > 1) Assumptions : Tim Luard sees the world flooded with American
> > culture, then assume that China does not have a good cultural base.
> > Actually, the two has no connection and should not give rise to his
> > assumption. Americans have developed pop culture to a high degree
> > partly by dumbing down -- soft drinks and hamburgers become culture.
> > When he sees no equivalent Chinese pop culture (actually, there is),
> > Tim Luard is confused.
> >
> > 2) Aptitude and appreciation : Tim Luard says he could hardly find
> > anyone able to appreciate Chinese culture. That does not mean China
> > has no good cultural base. Obviously, pop culture is more easily
> > digestible than, say, Beijing opera. It depends on whether the
> > individual wants to give the higher arts a chance, or take the easy way
> > out and eat a burger at a fast food joint.
> >
> > 3) Cultured Chinese gentleman : Your quest for the elusive cultured
> > Chinese gentlaman is more interesting than Tim Luard's confusion. Why
> > can't you find such a creature? Let me put things in perspective.
> > Today, American pop culture is in ascendant. Yet, can you find the
> > cultured American gentleman? Actually, there are lots of Americans who
> > are gentlemen (and women) and cultured. But they're such a disparate
> > lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
> > American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
> >
> > Wakalukong
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216630 ] |
Fr, 16 Juni 2006 17:28 |
|
|
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216631 ] |
Fr, 16 Juni 2006 17:33 |
|
rst0wxyz:
> Americans stand out because America takes the lead. Chinese leaders
> will stand out when China takes the lead in the future, and a bowl of
> rice will replace hamburgers.
Zero sum game ....
Does not have to be the consequence of globalization. McDonald
is test marketing rice in California, while the Texas based Chinese
bistrol, PF Chang, serves gourmet hamburgers in their SH restaur-
ants.
By local popular demands .... :)
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216647 ] |
Fr, 16 Juni 2006 19:09 |
|
On 16 Jun 2006 01:52:03 -0700, "mbl*" <mbplee [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> But a Chinese equivalent is rather a rare
>creature,(maybe an oldie like LinYuTang), but then perhaps, they might
>be found in the Chinese language media,
Beijing's CCTV's only English language TV channel carries very
interesting interviews and stories on China's top intellectuals in
every field. The interviews are on any subject including world
affairs. I am particularly impressed by CCTV's programs on China's
artistic and scientific luminaries. They are in English and of
course with voice overs and sub titles of the Chinese speaking persons
in the story. When I was there, there was a three part report on the
fantastically rich treasure trove buried by a Tang official who was
under threat by rebels. It gave details of how the multi disciplinary
team compared written Imperial Records to identify the very likely
official - the Imperial Tax collector - after eliminating a number of
possible named personalities. Of course there was the scientific team
explaning the importance of each artifact. A gold goblet with dancing
horses holding a cup matched exactly the description of a Tang poet's
that had hitherto been dismissed as an overimaginative mind. And
there was the historical interpretation of the finds that could be
matched to the records. Another three hours would be needed to do the
find justice.
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216718 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 03:36 |
|
ha ha ha ha
if you want to know the answer,
you are recommanded to read a chinese novel "the story of an Q-men"（亞Ｑ正
傳）。
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
The Bishop wrote:
> On 16 Jun 2006 08:05:03 -0700, "rst0wxyz [at] yahoo.com"
> <rst0wxyz [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Americans stand out because America takes the lead. Chinese leaders
>>will stand out when China takes the lead in the future, and a bowl of
>>rice will replace hamburgers.
>
>
>
> Why should there be a need to lead when one feel secured enough? And
> why would the Chinese want to concern themselves with hamburgers ....?
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216765 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 12:50 |
|
What is culture ?
Is it the language, food, religion, literature,
traditions, customs, clothing, movie, song,
games, dances, history, arts, sports ......
Then every country has its own culture.
Why do people say one culture is superior
than another,...on what basis? Surely this
is very subjective!
<kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150385030.067512.224030 [at] h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> his cause.
>
> These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> decadent and evil West.
>
> I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> new revolutionary ones fit in.
>
> (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> feudalism.)
>
> Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> it deserves.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ltlee1 wrote:
>> mbl* wrote:
>> > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
>> > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
>> > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
>> > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
>> > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
>> > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
>> > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
>> > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
>> > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
>> > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
>> > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>>
>> In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
>> Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
>> not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
>> appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
>> degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
>>
>> For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
>> He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
>> literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
>> background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
>> difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
>> of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
>>
>> In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
>> it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
>> direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
>> without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
>> approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
>> products of the
>> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
>> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
>> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
>> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
>> Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
>> it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
>> direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
>> the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
>> What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
>> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
>> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
>> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
>> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
>> easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
>> Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
>> himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
>> achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
>> the verbal filter such that one can have
>> direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
>> the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
>> What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
>> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
>> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
>> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
>> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
>>
>> I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
>> Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
>> himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
>> not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
>> then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
>> not.
>>
>> >
>> > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
>> > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
>> > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>> >
>> > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>> >
>> > "Looking for China's culture
>> >
>> > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>> >
>> > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>> >
>> > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
>> > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
>> > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>> >
>> > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
>> > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>> >
>> >
>> > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
>> > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
>> > career.
>> >
>> > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
>> > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
>> > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>> >
>> > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>> > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>> > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>> > the glories of China's traditional culture.
>> >
>> > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
>
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216771 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 14:09 |
|
Definition is important for understanding one another. Here is a
description of being "cultured". an extract:
'Civilization' means the betterment of ways of living, making Nature
bend to fulfil the needs of humankind. It includes also organizing
societies into politically well-defined groups working collectively for
improved conditions of life in matters of food, dress, communication,
and so on. Thus a group considers itself as civilized, while others
were looked down upon as barbarians. This has led to wars and
holocausts, resulting in mass destruction of human beings. Therefore
civilization by itself cannot be the goal of life.
On the other hand 'culture' refers to the inner man, a refinement of
head and heart. One who may be poor and wearing cheap apparel may be
considered 'uncivilized', but still he or she may be the most cultured
person. For 'culture' concerns itself with the inner refinement of a
person. This includes arts and sciences, music and dance and various
higher pursuits of human life which are also classified as cultural
activities. One possessing ostentatious wealth may be considered as
'civilized' but he may not be cultured. Therefore when we deal with
cultural yardsticks, we have to make clear our definition of 'culture'.
We would prefer to call it the 'higher levels of inner refinement' of a
human being. Man is not merely a physical being. He lives and acts in
three levels: physical, mental and spiritual. While better ways of
living socially and politically and better utilisation of nature around
us may be termed civilization, they are not enough to be a cultured
individual. Only when the deeper levels of human intellect and
consciousness are brought into expression can we call a person
'cultured'.
Looked at in this perspective, modern man may at once be called
civilized, but not cultured, though cultural expressions in art, music
and literature are there. But if culture in a deeper sense had
penetrated the human psyche, the modern world would not have had to
witness two world wars besides innumerable smaller ones. To add to
this, whole communities have been wiped out in vast genocides. All this
destruction cannot be called expressions of culture, though they are,
to be sure, characteristics of modern civilization. More efficient
methods of destruction do not take man far away from his animalism. If
anything, they make him more brutish. Only such qualities which raise
the human being from the animal level to the human level, and thence to
the divine level could be called culture. From this point of view we
may say that humankind will have to travel a long way before being
culturally transformed.
Throughout history while humankind is all the time getting more and
more 'civilized', we also find this struggle to transcend one's
animalism. Simultaneously there have been cultural transformations at
the micro level. Great intellectuals and poets, composers of profound
music and various art forms and, above all, spiritually transformed
saints and prophets, have transcended the limitations of societal
living and have become world citizens, for they represent the highest
pinnacle of human transformation. "
mbl* wrote:
> Quote,"But they're such a disparate
> lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
> American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
>
> Wakalukong "
>
> You may have a point here but......I do come across "cultured American
> Gentleman/woman" fairly often, in TV interviews, in articles written in
> the media, in books, on lecture tours, on University campuses, in real
> life when I lived in America, people like Magdalene Albright,
> Condoleeza Rice, many professors and writers, and they are outstanding
> in their own ways. But a Chinese equivalent is rather a rare
> creature,(maybe an oldie like LinYuTang), but then perhaps, they might
> be found in the Chinese language media, but if they are of that
> calibre, they would be translated and pronounced to the world. Out of
> 1.3 billion people, so little is heard of the genius and brilliance of
> outstanding personalities. Why? Surely 1.3 billion people have all not
> donned the "grey suits with high collars?" You cannot stereotype what
> is in the head! (Sorry I am fishing!)
>
>
>
> Wakalukong wrote:
> > mbl* wrote:
> > > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> > > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> > > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> > > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> > > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> > > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> > > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> > > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> > > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> > > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> > > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> > >
> > > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> > > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> > > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> > >
> > > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> > >
> > > "Looking for China's culture
> > >
> > > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> > >
> > > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> > >
> > > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> > > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> > > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> > >
> > > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> > > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> > >
> > >
> > > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> > > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> > > career.
> > >
> > > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> > > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> > > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> > >
> > > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> > > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> > > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> > > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> > >
> > > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
> > --------------
> >
> > I'll try to offer some partial answers to your questions.
> >
> > 1) Assumptions : Tim Luard sees the world flooded with American
> > culture, then assume that China does not have a good cultural base.
> > Actually, the two has no connection and should not give rise to his
> > assumption. Americans have developed pop culture to a high degree
> > partly by dumbing down -- soft drinks and hamburgers become culture.
> > When he sees no equivalent Chinese pop culture (actually, there is),
> > Tim Luard is confused.
> >
> > 2) Aptitude and appreciation : Tim Luard says he could hardly find
> > anyone able to appreciate Chinese culture. That does not mean China
> > has no good cultural base. Obviously, pop culture is more easily
> > digestible than, say, Beijing opera. It depends on whether the
> > individual wants to give the higher arts a chance, or take the easy way
> > out and eat a burger at a fast food joint.
> >
> > 3) Cultured Chinese gentleman : Your quest for the elusive cultured
> > Chinese gentlaman is more interesting than Tim Luard's confusion. Why
> > can't you find such a creature? Let me put things in perspective.
> > Today, American pop culture is in ascendant. Yet, can you find the
> > cultured American gentleman? Actually, there are lots of Americans who
> > are gentlemen (and women) and cultured. But they're such a disparate
> > lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
> > American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
> >
> > Wakalukong
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216776 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 15:27 |
|
mettas_mother1 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> We chinese are a superior race!
>
By what measure?
What is race?
CKSF
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216777 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 15:33 |
|
culture, in short, can be said to be the traditions different to other race
!!!!!
it is taken as superior when some others rush to imitate !!!!
such as the worn-out cowboy trousers are taken as superior garment !!!!
Bald eagle wrote:
> What is culture ?
>
> Is it the language, food, religion, literature,
> traditions, customs, clothing, movie, song,
> games, dances, history, arts, sports ......
>
> Then every country has its own culture.
> Why do people say one culture is superior
> than another,...on what basis? Surely this
> is very subjective!
>
>
>
>
> <kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150385030.067512.224030 [at] h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
>>for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
>>three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
>>even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
>>intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
>>his cause.
>>
>>These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
>>and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
>>of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
>>reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
>>The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
>>decadent and evil West.
>>
>>I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
>>composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
>>a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
>>new revolutionary ones fit in.
>>
>>(But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
>>today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
>>in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
>>feudalism.)
>>
>>Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
>>another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
>>and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
>>it deserves.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>ltlee1 wrote:
>>
>>>mbl* wrote:
>>>
>>>>The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
>>>>more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
>>>>is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
>>>>cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
>>>>Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
>>>>of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
>>>>history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
>>>>lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
>>>>have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
>>>>feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
>>>>sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>>>
>>>In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
>>>Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
>>>not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
>>>appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
>>>degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
>>>
>>>For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
>>>He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
>>>literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
>>>background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
>>>difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
>>>of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
>>>
>>>In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
>>>it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
>>>direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
>>>without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
>>>approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
>>>products of the
>>>verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
>>>Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
>>>kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
>>>has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
>>>Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
>>>it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
>>>direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
>>>the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
>>>What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
>>>verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
>>>Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
>>>kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
>>>has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
>>>easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
>>>Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
>>>himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
>>>achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
>>>the verbal filter such that one can have
>>>direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
>>>the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
>>>What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
>>>verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
>>>Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
>>>kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
>>>has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
>>>
>>>I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
>>>Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
>>>himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
>>>not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
>>>then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
>>>not.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
>>>>at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
>>>>upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
>>>>
>>>>I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
>>>>
>>>>"Looking for China's culture
>>>>
>>>>By Tim Luard, BBC, China
>>>>
>>>>China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
>>>>
>>>>As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
>>>>sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
>>>>hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
>>>>
>>>>Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
>>>>exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
>>>>current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
>>>>career.
>>>>
>>>>The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
>>>>its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
>>>>music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
>>>>
>>>>But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
>>>>only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
>>>>there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
>>>>the glories of China's traditional culture.
>>>>
>>>>The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
>>
>
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216786 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 17:11 |
|
On 17 Jun 2006 05:09:15 -0700, "mbl*" <mbplee [at] gmail.com> in this message
<1150360471.194102.211810 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
<1150435138.477709.48700 [at] y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>
<1150447922.990357.29210 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> from
<1150546155.446803.273860 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> subject as: Re: The
Chinese Culture:
wrote/and/or quoted:
bros mbl and Wakalukong quoting Tim Luard, BBC, China, have come up with
detailed definitions of culture and went on to define a cultured gentleman.
plato in his introdution on discourse started off with
"before we discuss, we must agree to the definitions."
or else we would never come to any agreements on the basics let along matters
arising from the discussed.
mbl and Wakalukong have defined culture in very great details.
having gone through the arguments, definitions, are we agreed that
culture INCLUDES tradition and religion ??
=========================end, and/or end quote================
-pluto
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216789 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 17:27 |
|
mbl* wrote:
>
> ...................If not, why has this
> sophistication not been handed down the generations?
>
> "Looking for China's culture By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> career.
>
>
> But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> the glories of China's traditional culture.
>
> The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
Culture is NOT only Chinese meals or Chinese arts.
"Culture is socially transmitted behaviour patterns, arts, beliefs,
institutions, and all other products of human work and thought."
" Culture is the integrated system of socially acquired values, beliefs, and
rules of conduct which delimit the range of accepted behaviors in any given
society."
Walk among any Chinese community, one can see Chinese culture is alive and
well. It permeates every aspect of the society.
As common as a traditional Chinese family at meals, one can see Chinese
culture.
-- Chinese eat quietly, the children can talk only if spoken to.
-- The children will address all the elders, inviting them to meals,
-- The family will use chop sticks to pick up food, and bowl for
rice.
-- The children will refill the bowls of rice for the elders
-- Every one will pick the food on the plate nearest him,
never to pick and choose food item on the plate,
-- The head of family will take the seat nearest the family alter,
the children at the seats facing the alter.
-- Everyone is properly dressed for meal, never in short and
bare body.
-- Argument over meals is strictly prohibited.
Chinese writing:
-- Chinese write with brushes, from right to left
-- Chinese words, written boldly, hang above their
doors, and on both side of their doors,
-- Those two words above the doors, denote family
origin, Those on the side are Chinese poetry
-- The words are change just before Chinese new year
-- Scrolls of Chinese words are hung in the family
living room. It can be a simple word, like Dragon
or Fortune, or poetry.
These are only two of the Chinese cultural practices among
the thousand others, guiding the daily lives of Chinese, from
elaborate customs and cultural practices on birth of a child,
to marriage. to funeral and to prayer to ancestors, and
numerous festivals, from Chinese New year, temple
festivals to moon cake festivals.
Foreigner will NOT see them as they do not have such
cultural practices.
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216790 ] |
Sa, 17 Juni 2006 17:33 |
|
We're a melting pot of cultures. We're going to make $$it. Loads of it.
Bald eagle wrote:
> What is culture ?
>
> Is it the language, food, religion, literature,
> traditions, customs, clothing, movie, song,
> games, dances, history, arts, sports ......
>
> Then every country has its own culture.
> Why do people say one culture is superior
> than another,...on what basis? Surely this
> is very subjective!
>
>
>
>
> <kqurtyhar [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150385030.067512.224030 [at] h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >I dont know much about Chinese history but let me weigh in. China has
> > for some time, in its most developmental stages, been suppressed by
> > three particularly oppressive regimes. The Mongols, The Manchus ( who
> > even made the the Chinese wear pigtails) and by Mao Tse Tung, who hated
> > intellectuals and the intelligentsia whom he thought were undermining
> > his cause.
> >
> > These three periods and especially the last one, saw the development
> > and refinement of Chinese people severely retarded. China became a land
> > of peasants when it could have been a land of brilliance. Everyone was
> > reduced to the same common denominator of drab Mao suits and red book.
> > The liberal arts and its' exponents were ridiculed as henchmen of the
> > decadent and evil West.
> >
> > I once heard a documentary on BBC regarding this. It was a famous
> > composer recounting his past. One thing he said struck me. He said that
> > a very famous love song of that era had all its lyrics wrenched out and
> > new revolutionary ones fit in.
> >
> > (But to me Chairman Mao was a great man and if China is a powerhouse
> > today, it is because of his equalising society so that all could join
> > in the great leap forward, unlike India which is still mired in
> > feudalism.)
> >
> > Refinement comes with second and third generation money. It'll take
> > another generation or so before the moneyed kids become the connosiuers
> > and afficienadoes that can take Chinese culture and arts to the level
> > it deserves.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ltlee1 wrote:
> >> mbl* wrote:
> >> > The development of the Chinese culture and its sophistication goes back
> >> > more than 4,000 years and all Chinese people bask in this glory. There
> >> > is no question that it is one of the most ancient sophisticated
> >> > cultures of this universe, and many of us, non-Chinese as well as
> >> > Chinese look for evidence of such culture. Certainly there is evidence
> >> > of this culture, in porcelain, in art works, in literature, in China's
> >> > history, in the ancient palaceses, in traditions and folk-lore, but
> >> > lacking among the common populace of everyday China. Why? For years, I
> >> > have sought to meet sophisticated, cultured Chinese Gentlemen, but this
> >> > feat has evaded me. Why? Do they exist? If not, why has this
> >> > sophistication not been handed down the generations?
> >>
> >> In general, culture exist for practical reasons, not for vanity.
> >> Cultural practices can only exist through time because they are useful,
> >> not because they can impress foreigners. In addition, one can only
> >> appreciate a culture if he or she knows about the culture to some
> >> degree. And he or she has the mental leisury to appreciate it.
> >>
> >> For example, Gao received the Nobel prize for his work in literature.
> >> He draws on Samule Beckett's (also a Nobel Prize winner in literatue)
> >> literary style, some call that irrational style, mixes with his Chinese
> >> background and pushes the style to a new level. However, Chinese have
> >> difficulty appreciating it. Not because they are stupid. But a matter
> >> of cultural tradition and mental leisury.
> >>
> >> In Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> >> it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> >> direct access to the reality and truth both phyical and intrapersonal
> >> without the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite
> >> approach. What one needs is to fill oneself with egoistic staff,
> >> products of the
> >> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> >> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> >> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> >> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. In
> >> Buddhism, the goal is to achieve emptiness. In psychological term,
> >> it is akin to the removal of the verbal filter such that one can have
> >> direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> >> the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> >> What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> >> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> >> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> >> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> >> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance. I can
> >> easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> >> Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> >> himself in a mode of self-congradulation. In Buddhism, the goal is to
> >> achieve emptiness. In psychological term, it is akin to the removal of
> >> the verbal filter such that one can have
> >> direct access to the reality, both phyical and intrapersonal without
> >> the verbal mind. Beckettian style takes the direct opposite approach.
> >> What one need is to fill oneself with egoistic staff, products of the
> >> verbal mind, and assume an apocalytic but otherwise nihilistic stance.
> >> Very intellectual but very uncompassionate. The joy of reading this
> >> kind of writing is partially derived from the self-knowledge that one
> >> has the ability/mental leisury to assume this particular stance.
> >>
> >> I can easily see someone musing over Beckett's writing in some French
> >> Riviera, sipping champaigne, enjoying the sun and the scenary and lost
> >> himself in a mode of self-congradulation. Most Chinese probably will
> >> not have the mental leisury to enjoy this kind of writing. Should they
> >> then conclude that Gao or Beckett's writings not elegant? Certainly
> >> not.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I know I will probably not get polite and intelligent answers here, but
> >> > at least, perhaps, it may start a few Chinese posters here to reflect
> >> > upon it, in context of the pride of the Chinese culture.
> >> >
> >> > I quote a short extract as an appetizer,
> >> >
> >> > "Looking for China's culture
> >> >
> >> > By Tim Luard, BBC, China
> >> >
> >> > China is the proud owner of the world's oldest continuous civilisation.
> >> >
> >> > As recently as the 17th century, it had the largest and most
> >> > sophisticated empire on Earth, one that used its cultural prestige to
> >> > hold diplomatic sway over much of Asia and beyond.
> >> >
> >> > Its skills - from printing to paper, porcelain and silk-making - far
> >> > exceeded anything to be found in Europe.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > So you might think China would have a good cultural base, given its
> >> > current economic clout, on which to build a possible new superpower
> >> > career.
> >> >
> >> > The United States, after all, has successfully flooded the world with
> >> > its own culture - mainly in the form of films and TV programmes, pop
> >> > music, soft drinks and hamburgers.
> >> >
> >> > But while a lot of foreigners like the occasional Chinese meal, the
> >> > only Chinese arts we are likely to have heard of are martial ones, and
> >> > there is no sign of many of us showing any aptitude or appreciation for
> >> > the glories of China's traditional culture.
> >> >
> >> > The trouble is, not many Chinese are these days either."
> >
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216920 ] |
Mo, 19 Juni 2006 04:25 |
|
mbl* wrote:
> Quote,"But they're such a disparate
> lot that you won't be able to pinpoint one as the typical cultured
> American gentleman. The same goes with the cultured Chinese gentleman.
>
> Wakalukong "
>
> You may have a point here but......I do come across "cultured American
> Gentleman/woman" fairly often, in TV interviews, in articles written in
> the media, in books, on lecture tours, on University campuses, in real
> life when I lived in America, people like Magdalene Albright,
> Condoleeza Rice, many professors and writers, and they are outstanding
> in their own ways. But a Chinese equivalent is rather a rare
> creature,(maybe an oldie like LinYuTang), but then perhaps, they might
> be found in the Chinese language media, but if they are of that
> calibre, they would be translated and pronounced to the world. Out of
> 1.3 billion people, so little is heard of the genius and brilliance of
> outstanding personalities. Why? Surely 1.3 billion people have all not
> donned the "grey suits with high collars?" You cannot stereotype what
> is in the head! (Sorry I am fishing!)
(snip)
----------
I understand what you mean. I can think of 3 reasons :
1) To have an idea of the depth of Chinese culture, and whether there
are a lot of "cultured Chinese gentlemen" and ladies, we must
inevitably look to the Chinese language media. That's where the
discussions and exchanges really take place.
2) Chinese intellectuals today don't just spout Confucius or things
Chinese. They may not even live in China. So when they talk, we may
not recognize them as cultured Chinese gentlemen.
3) American intellectuals, cultural icons, actors, actresses, Donald
Trump, and assorted fakes and pretenders are all celebrated because the
nature of US society and media makes such celebration possible and even
desirable. Although it is now quite impossible to suppress
"subversive" thoughts in China, a cultured Chinese gentleman has a far
lower chance than an American one to be celebrated and famous.
Wakalukong
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216922 ] |
Mo, 19 Juni 2006 04:34 |
|
pluto wrote:
> On 17 Jun 2006 05:09:15 -0700, "mbl*" <mbplee [at] gmail.com> in this message
> <1150360471.194102.211810 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
> <1150435138.477709.48700 [at] y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>
> <1150447922.990357.29210 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> from
> <1150546155.446803.273860 [at] g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> subject as: Re: The
> Chinese Culture:
> wrote/and/or quoted:
>
> bros mbl and Wakalukong quoting Tim Luard, BBC, China, have come up with
> detailed definitions of culture and went on to define a cultured gentleman.
> plato in his introdution on discourse started off with
> "before we discuss, we must agree to the definitions."
> or else we would never come to any agreements on the basics let along matters
> arising from the discussed.
>
> mbl and Wakalukong have defined culture in very great details.
>
> having gone through the arguments, definitions, are we agreed that
>
> culture INCLUDES tradition and religion ??
> =========================end, and/or end quote================
> -pluto
---------------
Culture does include tradition and values found in religion. For
example, although many Westerners are not religious or even
anti-religion, Western culture certainly has elements of
Judeo-Christian values.
Wakalukong
|
|
|
| Re: The Chinese Culture [message #216923 ] |
Mo, 19 Juni 2006 04:38 |
|
Bald eagle wrote:
> What is culture ?
>
> Is it the language, food, religion, literature,
> traditions, customs, clothing, movie, song,
> games, dances, history, arts, sports ......
>
> Then every country has its own culture.
> Why do people say one culture is superior
> than another,...on what basis? Surely this
> is very subjective!
>
>
Not just subjective but also racist
|
|
|
Gehe zu:
aktuelle Zeit: So Mai 27 11:33:58 CEST 2012
Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,16845 Sekunden |
