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Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » Ouch: China's IT Scandals
| Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #220312] |
Mo, 03 Juli 2006 18:54 |
|
Two chip scandals set back China's IT industry
By Wu Zhong, China Editor
July 4, 2006
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HG04Cb06.html
HONG KONG - China's efforts to design its own computer microprocessors
suffered another major setback when the state-supported research and
development (R&D) project for the Arca-3 embedded CPU (central
processing unit) chip was interrupted because of suspected
embezzlement of research funds.
The crisis in the Arca-3 project was exposed just weeks after the
"Hanxin chip" scandal erupted, leading to the disgrace of a star chip
designer, Chen Ji of Jiaotong University in Shanghai. Chen's Hanxin
chip, a digital signal processing chip hailed as a "breakthrough
invention" by the Chinese government, turned out to be simply a copy
of a US design.
The twin scandals have dealt a blow to China's ambition to catch up
with advanced countries in information technology. What China has lost
is not only the public funds for the two research projects, a
considerable sum, but more important, also invaluable time in a race
that China started very late.
The ARCA case
Beijing-based ARCA Technology Corp is responsible for the R&D on the
Arca-3 CPU chips, which have been financially supported by the
government as a key national high-tech project.
ARCA Technology Corp used to be a rising star in Zhongguanchun Science
Park, known as Beijing's Silicon Valley. In July 2001, the firm's
predecessor developed the 166 megahertz Arca-1, acclaimed as China's
first independently designed 32-bit CPU chip. The birth of the Arca-1
was hailed by the Chinese media as "ending China's history without its
own CPU chips". The 330-400MHz Arca-2 chips issued by the company in
December 2002 were also cheered as "another milestone" in the
development of China's information-technology (IT) sector.
The development of the Arca-1 and Arca-2 chips was supported by the
central government as China, no longer content with being the world's
low-cost manufacturing workshop, is eager to advance science and
promote high-technology industries to show it can compete with others
in science and technology as well.
According to an article in the latest issue of the Guangzhou-based IT
Time Weekly, direct and indirect financial support by the government
for the development of the Arca-1 and Arca-2 may have totaled more
than 100 million yuan (US$12.5 million), including government
procurement of computers using the Arca CPU chips.
Based on the earlier achievements, the government quickly decided to
include the R&D of the more powerful Arca-3 CPU embedded chips as a
key projects under its so-called 863 Program, and give financial
support to ARCA Technology for the project.
In March 1986, four renowned Chinese scientists wrote a letter to the
Communist Party's Central Committee, urging the country's top
policymaking body to take measures to promote the development of high
technologies so that China could catch up with advanced countries.
Then-leader Deng Xiaoping attached great importance to their views,
and under his supervision the party Central Committee and the State
Council, China's cabinet, quickly jointly worked out an outline plan
for high-tech development, called the 863 Program for short. Since
then, the government has annually allocated special funds for the 863
Program to support major high-tech R&D projects across the country.
According to a late May report by the 21st Century Business Herald,
one of China's leading business newspapers, based in Guangzhou, the
government granted 15.38 million yuan to fund the R&D for the Arca-3
chip, the largest funding for any IC chip R&D project under the 863
Program during the 10th Five-Year Plan (2001-05) period.
As required, ARCA Technology signed a contract with the Ministry of
Science and Technology for the financial support under the 863 Program
for the Arca-3 project. According to the contract, ARCA Technology
would have to complete the project by December 2003, presenting
completed 400-450MHz embedded CPU chips for government inspection.
Half a year after the deadline passed, there was still no news from
ARCA Technology. So in June 2004, the 863 Program sent experts to
check the company's progress. After a preliminary investigation, the
experts suspected that government funds were not spent "in accordance
with the contracted budget".
In early 2005, ARCA Technology reported to the 863 Program that it had
completed the Arca-3 project and asked to be inspected. However,
experts from the 863 Program, after a check, refused to accept the
firm's samples, pointing out that they did not meet the technological
requirements specified in the contract.
At the same time, ARCA Technology's chief executive officer Li Delei
began to state publicly that his company would no longer do any R&D on
CPU chips, citing "no future" for marketing China-made chips, the
report said. He even directly told the experts sent by the 863 Program
that ARCA Technology would give up CPU R&D and focus instead on making
IC (integrated circuit) chips for Little Smart phone handsets (the
Little Smart phone, called Xiaolingtong in Mandarin, is a kind of
stripped-down mobile phone based on the fixed-line network).
According to the IT Time Weekly, Li admitted there were problems with
the progress of the Arca-3 project. He said that according to rules of
the 863 Program funding, the company could only spend less than 15% of
the 15.38 million yuan R&D fund, or about 2.3 million yuan, on
salaries for its staff. There were some 60 persons participating in
the Arca-3 R&D project, which meant each could receive only 2,000-plus
yuan a month. However, that level of monthly salary was too low for
the industry, Li reportedly said.
However, the report added, according to the company's balance sheets
for December 2004, the salaries of three top managers in that month
totaled 320,000 yuan. The three included Li himself, his brother and
deputy Li Dejing and his brother-in-law Wang Xiaosu, the company's
chief financial officer. But one of the directors of ARCA Technology,
Su Jiawei, said the salary of Li, the CEO, did not come from the 863
Program fund, and therefore it was wrong to allege that senior
managers had misappropriated the R&D fund to pay themselves high
salaries.
But Li's explanation cannot justify the company's failure to complete
the R&D project in time. If he thought the government fund was not
enough to pay his research team, why was he willing to sign the
contract to accept the funding - which implied he accepted the funding
terms - in the first place? And the company could have applied for
additional funds had it found a shortage, instead of making a
complaint long after the completion of the research project was
overdue.
So it was no surprise that Li Delei's explanation directed media's
attention to the ARCA Building, with a total floor area of 15,000
square meters, in Zhongguanchun Software Park, the construction of
which is nearing completion.
The land for the construction of the building was allocated to the
company at low cost by the Zhongguanchun Software Park after it
produced the Arca-1 chips. The Software Park also gave its full
support to ARCA Technology for the construction of the building. Early
in 2005, Li Delei told his staff that the total investment for
erecting the building was 60 million yuan, half of which came from the
company's own funds and another from bank loans the Zhongguanchun
Software Park helped to arrange.
It was reported that Li Delei often took his guests to visit the
construction site of the ARCA Building and told them, "In China,
having land means having money. In China the sector that makes real
money is property development, not high-tech industries."
So the question was naturally raised: if ARCA Technology was short of
funds to complete the Arca-3 research project, why then did it have
money to construct a building? This led to the suspicion that the 863
Program funds might have been embezzled.
In any case, the Ministry of Science and Technology, which oversees
the 863 Program, has set up a special task force to investigate the
Arca-3 case formally. So far ARCA Technology has held off media
inquiry into the Arca-3 case.
The Ministry of Science and Technology's investigation into the Arca-3
case follows the exposure of other scandals involving
government-funded research projects, involving fraud and embezzlement
of funds.
The Hanxin scandal
The most recent and notorious case was Chen Jin's faking the invention
of the Hanxin chip. After earning his PhD in computer engineering in
the United States, chip designer Chen returned to Shanghai in 2000.
Three years later, Chen, then 35 and a professor with the prestigious
Shanghai Jiaotong University, announced that his team had created one
of China's first home-developed digital signal processor (DSP) chips,
which it named Hanxin ("Chinese chip").
The achievement was hailed as a milestone for China's fledgling IT
industry. Chen was honored as one of China's outstanding young
scientists; the government granted him a huge research fund and he was
appointed dean of Shanghai Jiaotong University's Institute of
Microelectronics.
But at the end of 2005, government agencies began to receive letters
complaining that Chen's Hanxin chips in fact were copies of US
designs. The scandal was soon exposed by the media, with some reports
saying that Chen bought US-made chips, erased the trademark on the
back, and reprinted the Hanxin trademark.
The allegations, after being widely reported by the media, prompted
the central government and Shanghai Jiaotong University to launch an
investigation.
In early May, the investigation concluded that Chen did indeed fake
his research, and had cheated the authorities and the public,
presumably for money and fame. On May 12, Shanghai Jiaotong University
sacked him and stripped away all his honors and privileges. The
government decided to retrieve all funds allocated to the Hanxin
research, and permanently banned Chen from doing any government-funded
research.
Lessons and problems
The twin chip scandals have done significant damage to the development
of an independent IT industry in China. The lost funds - about 15
million yuan - are a drop in the ocean of the government budget. What
the state regrets, rather, is the loss of invaluable time. The several
years squandered on illegitimate projects will make it even harder for
China to catch up with advanced countries in IC technology, whose
complexity is growing exponentially every year.
The two cases have also exposed a serious problem in China's
government-funded research establishment, namely, the apparent lack of
supervision of the Hanxin and Arca-3 research projects. If the
research efforts had been closely monitored, it is argued, problems
could have been discovered at an early stage.
But perhaps more ominous, the two cases show that the nation's zeal to
chase after money has led to corruption invading scientific research.
It is truly a pity that in China, where learning has been highly
respected for millennia, and scholars considered moral exemplars
according to the Confucian tradition, corruption has begun to run wild
even in the educational and scientific research arenas. It is no
wonder that some Chinese are asking, "Is there any 'clean soil' in
China nowadays?"
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #220430 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 09:01 |
|
ppp:
> Two chip scandals set back China's IT industry
> By Wu Zhong, China Editor
> July 4, 2006
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HG04Cb06.html
The number one and universal dread ....
Among China's inventors, writers and movie producers is privacy.
All TV and movie producers have horrific tales of their works pop-
ing up all over China the moment they are debuted. No one wants
to make heavy investments in time or money into anything. When
asked, they are only interested in one thing:
How long will it take to get back their investment ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #220519 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 22:03 |
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Albert K. Fung wrote:
> ppp:
>
> > Two chip scandals set back China's IT industry
> > By Wu Zhong, China Editor
> > July 4, 2006
> > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HG04Cb06.html
>
> The number one and universal dread ....
>
> Among China's inventors, writers and movie producers is privacy.
> All TV and movie producers have horrific tales of their works pop-
> ing up all over China the moment they are debuted. No one wants
> to make heavy investments in time or money into anything. When
> asked, they are only interested in one thing:
>
> How long will it take to get back their investment ....
Computer chip is not musical song or software where anyone with a blank
disk can copy. Even highly trained scientists can not reverse
engineered computer chips so there is no way to copy very very fine
electrical circuitry.
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221295 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 18:31 |
|
rst9wxyz:
> Computer chip is not musical song or software where anyone with a blank
> disk can copy. Even highly trained scientists can not reverse
> engineered computer chips so there is no way to copy very very fine
> electrical circuitry.
The "inventor" of the Hanxin chip set .... :)
Quite respectfully disagrees with the that assertion. He simply
took the TI design, copied it, erased the TI logo, and, replaced
it with the Hanxin one.
An advanced, all Chinese, DSP chip was born ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221303 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 19:11 |
|
On 5 Jul 2006 09:31:09 -0700, "Albert K. Fung" <akwfung [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Quite respectfully disagrees with the that assertion. He simply
>took the TI design, copied it, erased the TI logo, and, replaced
>it with the Hanxin one.
He didn't go that route - deconstruct a Motorola signal processing
chip (not TI) and then reverse engineer it. All our fraudster did was
to buy a batch of chips, got his technicians to scrape off the
Motorola logo and chip specs, then printed his Hanxin logo and specs
on the chip.
Its very likely that he did try to design his own chip but failed.
Without anything to show he cheated. He has a PhD from a US
university. What made him think he could get away with such a
ridiculous scheme.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221321 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 20:28 |
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> Quite respectfully disagrees with the that assertion. He simply
> took the TI design, copied it, erased the TI logo, and, replaced
> it with the Hanxin one.
ppp:
> He didn't go that route - deconstruct a Motorola signal processing
> chip (not TI) and then reverse engineer it. All our fraudster did was
> to buy a batch of chips, got his technicians to scrape off the
> Motorola logo and chip specs, then printed his Hanxin logo and specs
> on the chip.
>
> Its very likely that he did try to design his own chip but failed.
> Without anything to show he cheated. He has a PhD from a US
> university. What made him think he could get away with such a
> ridiculous scheme.
A most sincere apology ....
That episode is also known as the "sandpaper fraud". And the
gentleman from China was, indeed, employed by Motorola in
their Freescale DSP chip project.
Reverse-engineering, however, is not a crime nor a fraud.
For it is a fairly involved and highly complicated process. In it,
corporate lawyers are, by necessity, involved. It is their job to
ensure straight adherence to the "cleanroom" doctrine. When
challenged, they must present documented proof that none of
the team members had seen or was worked on the chip set to
be reverse-engineered. Using that process, AMD successfully
reverse-engineered Intel's Pentium processor. But it took them
many years, and its validity withstood Intel's court challenges.
The exact nature of the gentleman's offense is not clear. How-
ever, his work was declared frudulent by the PRC government.
It must be sufficiently clear to the authority that Hanxin chipset
was not reverse-engineered. Sandpaper, was the hearsay. :)
http://www.whatpc.co.uk/vnunet/news/2156106/china-shocked-ch ip-fraud
Which is consistent with the prevailing ideology of the PRC: To
get rich is glorious. The faster, the better.
And, the end justifies the means .... :)
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221329 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 21:11 |
|
Albert K. Fung wrote:
> > Quite respectfully disagrees with the that assertion. He simply
> > took the TI design, copied it, erased the TI logo, and, replaced
> > it with the Hanxin one.
>
> ppp:
>
>
> > He didn't go that route - deconstruct a Motorola signal processing
> > chip (not TI) and then reverse engineer it. All our fraudster did was
> > to buy a batch of chips, got his technicians to scrape off the
> > Motorola logo and chip specs, then printed his Hanxin logo and specs
> > on the chip.
> >
> > Its very likely that he did try to design his own chip but failed.
> > Without anything to show he cheated. He has a PhD from a US
> > university. What made him think he could get away with such a
> > ridiculous scheme.
>
> A most sincere apology ....
>
> That episode is also known as the "sandpaper fraud". And the
> gentleman from China was, indeed, employed by Motorola in
> their Freescale DSP chip project.
>
> Reverse-engineering, however, is not a crime nor a fraud.
>
> For it is a fairly involved and highly complicated process. In it,
> corporate lawyers are, by necessity, involved. It is their job to
> ensure straight adherence to the "cleanroom" doctrine. When
> challenged, they must present documented proof that none of
> the team members had seen or was worked on the chip set to
> be reverse-engineered. Using that process, AMD successfully
> reverse-engineered Intel's Pentium processor.
AMD had no need to reverse-engineered the Pentium chip as the Pentium
is a piece of junk from the beginning. AMD hired a team of chip
designers from ex-DEC employees who worked on the DEC Alpha chip. The
Alpha is the most advanced chip around, but had the misfortune of being
non-compatible to the Intel 8086 instruction set used on the PC.
In a way, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) was a victim of
non-compatibility. DEC's VAX mainframe computers were the best
mainframe ever built, but was not compatible to the IBM Mainframe.
Defense Contractors like Lockheed has thousands of VAXs, but the
business sectors wouldn't use them. The VAX VMS was the best operating
system around. Microsoft stole VAX VMS to start its Windows operating
system. We in the know called Microsoft's Windows Operating System the
"the better VMS".
> But it took them
> many years, and its validity withstood Intel's court challenges.
>
> The exact nature of the gentleman's offense is not clear. How-
> ever, his work was declared frudulent by the PRC government.
> It must be sufficiently clear to the authority that Hanxin chipset
> was not reverse-engineered. Sandpaper, was the hearsay. :)
>
> http://www.whatpc.co.uk/vnunet/news/2156106/china-shocked-ch ip-fraud
>
> Which is consistent with the prevailing ideology of the PRC: To
> get rich is glorious. The faster, the better.
>
> And, the end justifies the means .... :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
|
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221367 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 00:49 |
|
On 5 Jul 2006 11:28:55 -0700, "Albert K. Fung" <akwfung [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Reverse-engineering, however, is not a crime nor a fraud.
Oh yes, it is patent-copyright infringement if the copier used exactly
the same circuit or software solutions. I can't recall the exact name
of process you are describing, the "clean room process." In this CR
process a team analyses the functionality of someone else's product
and writes out the specs on what they wish to emulate and perhaps
enhance. Then the specs are passed to a clean room design team that
must NOT have worked on the (someone else's) source chip or program at
any time. If the team successfully comes up with with a chip or
software that can emulate the original, and can prove that the design
team had scruplously not had contact with the original to arrive at
the product, then they will be absolved from a patent infringement
lawsuit.
Our Hanxi friend's fraud would have been discovered in no time at all.
There are consultant firms that can delaminate (remove layer by layer)
a chip to analyse the circuitry to prove or disprove infringement. A
quick search turned up
====================================
Reverse Engineering Revealed -
Proving the Black Box Infringes
http://www.semiconductor.com/resources/newsletters/inside_ne ws_2003_fall/reverse_engineering_revealed.asp
INside this issue
Reverse Engineering Revealed
Outsourced Licensing Success
Introducing IP Landscape
Putting law firms in focus
See What's Inside... AMD
LCD Vendors Getting Traction in the U.S. Market
Mike McLean
Director of Intellectual Property Services,
Semiconductor Insights
Reverse Engineering (RE) is the art of taking things apart to
determine how they work and how they were constructed. Chip
deconstruction lets Intellectual Property (IP) owners know which
technologies to protect, how to architect an effective patent, and who
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There are many different activities that can be qualified as Reverse
Engineering. In the field of microelectronics, there are the following
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Functional Testing involves monitoring activity at a certain point in
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allow schematics to be produced. Schematics can be generated for
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complete chips such as memory IC’s, microprocessors, or RF
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221370 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 01:23 |
|
rst0:
> AMD had no need to reverse-engineered the Pentium chip as the Pentium
> is a piece of junk from the beginning. AMD hired a team of chip
> designers from ex-DEC employees who worked on the DEC Alpha chip. The
> Alpha is the most advanced chip around, but had the misfortune of being
> non-compatible to the Intel 8086 instruction set used on the PC.
>
> In a way, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) was a victim of
> non-compatibility. DEC's VAX mainframe computers were the best
> mainframe ever built, but was not compatible to the IBM Mainframe.
> Defense Contractors like Lockheed has thousands of VAXs, but the
> business sectors wouldn't use them. The VAX VMS was the best operating
> system around. Microsoft stole VAX VMS to start its Windows operating
> system. We in the know called Microsoft's Windows Operating System the
> "the better VMS".
Perhaps ....
But DEC, like Wang, Sun, etc. lacked the "vision thing". And failed
to adapt, thus became road-kills of a galatic paradigm shift in the
field of computer.
Even the once mighty IBM failed to lead with the Moore's law.
And became its victim. Now Microsoft the empire is trying to strike
back at the likes of Google and Yahoo. However, after spactacular
failure to forsee the netage, even Microsoft's cagey founder's fully
aware of opportunity lost and his own failing intellect.
As to Alpha, it was an admirable but futile effort on the part of DEC
to reclaim its past glory. But they failed the Darwinian selection and
the market moved on.
AMD persisted. They've been reversed engineering processor after
processor from Intel. It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
=E6=B2=89=E8=88=9F=E5=81=B4=E7=95=94=E5=8D=83=E5=B8=86=E9=81 =8E, =E7=97=85=
=E6=A8=B9=E5=89=8D=E9=A0=AD=E8=90=AC=E6=9C=A8=E6=98=A5 ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
|
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221372 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 01:23 |
|
ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2006 11:28:55 -0700, "Albert K. Fung" <akwfung [at] hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Reverse-engineering, however, is not a crime nor a fraud.
>
>
> Oh yes, it is patent-copyright infringement if the copier used exactly
> the same circuit or software solutions. I can't recall the exact name
> of process you are describing, the "clean room process." In this CR
> process a team analyses the functionality of someone else's product
> and writes out the specs on what they wish to emulate and perhaps
> enhance. Then the specs are passed to a clean room design team that
> must NOT have worked on the (someone else's) source chip or program at
> any time. If the team successfully comes up with with a chip or
> software that can emulate the original, and can prove that the design
> team had scruplously not had contact with the original to arrive at
> the product, then they will be absolved from a patent infringement
> lawsuit.
>
> Our Hanxi friend's fraud would have been discovered in no time at all.
>
> There are consultant firms that can delaminate (remove layer by layer)
> a chip to analyse the circuitry to prove or disprove infringement. A
> quick search turned up
> ====================================
>
>
> Reverse Engineering Revealed -
> Proving the Black Box Infringes
> http://www.semiconductor.com/resources/newsletters/inside_ne ws_2003_fall/reverse_engineering_revealed.asp
> INside this issue
> Reverse Engineering Revealed
> Outsourced Licensing Success
> Introducing IP Landscape
> Putting law firms in focus
> See What's Inside... AMD
> LCD Vendors Getting Traction in the U.S. Market
>
> Mike McLean
> Director of Intellectual Property Services,
> Semiconductor Insights
>
>
> Reverse Engineering (RE) is the art of taking things apart to
> determine how they work and how they were constructed. Chip
> deconstruction lets Intellectual Property (IP) owners know which
> technologies to protect, how to architect an effective patent, and who
> to assert patent claims against.
>
> Documented RE analysis serves as hard evidence in a court of law; a
> "smoking gun", so to speak. Armed with concrete technical evidence,
> lawyers are able to build a stronger case, accelerate the time to
> license revenues, and maximize licensing valuations. The alternatives
> to RE include circumstantial pieces like press releases and technical
> papers which are much weaker in court and add significant risk to the
> licensing process.
>
> There are many different activities that can be qualified as Reverse
> Engineering. In the field of microelectronics, there are the following
> three main approaches to RE:
>
> Process Analysis;
> Functional Testing and;
> Circuit Extraction.
> Each approach reveals different information about microelectronic
> components and systems and each is explored in more detail below.
>
>
> Process Analysis is the study of manufacturing techniques or
> processes. Integrated Circuits (IC's) are built in layers of various
> materials (usually metal and polysilicon) to form transistors. These
> individual transistors are then interconnected with wires. This
> process involves a large number of discrete steps. Most of these steps
> leave some type of signature (known as an artifact) that can be
> identified from materials analysis and topographical and
> cross-sectional images. A skilled analyst can recreate the process
> flow, determine the mask count, and in effect apply the process patent
> from these signatures.
>
> Functional Testing involves monitoring activity at a certain point in
> a circuit or system to determine its functionality. This is also known
> as black box testing. Functional testing requires access to the
> appropriate node to capture information and the ability to identify
> relevant information by controlling the input parameters or some other
> means. Given this situation, testing can reveal a variety of
> information including transistor characteristics, operational timing,
> voltage waveforms, and data transfers. This information is useful to
> establish patent claims that describe a certain behavior, operation,
> or function without specifying the implementation details.
> Semiconductor Insights successfully applied this technique on behalf
> of Harris Corporation for a licensing settlement with several cell
> phone manufacturers.
>
> Circuit Extraction is the process of generating circuit schematics
> from the images of an IC. Initially, the connections between different
> circuit elements such as transistors and resistors are isolated and
> identified. These connections reveal the function of the circuit and
> allow schematics to be produced. Schematics can be generated for
> simple circuits such as buffers, amplifiers, or flip-flops and for
> complete chips such as memory IC's, microprocessors, or RF
> transceivers. This lets you clearly document design infringement. A
> combination of process and circuit analyses completed by SI was
> successfully used by Texas Instruments to attain a licensing
> settlement of $US 1.2 billion.
>
> As illustrated above, RE can be effectively applied to IP disputes -
> circuit and process - for quick, equitable, and profitable resolution.
> RE as part of your up front legal due diligence will help mitigate
> risk and let you focus on the best targets. As well, working with a
> partner that knows which types of techniques are best to document
> specific types of patents is invaluable to your success. Finally, make
> sure your RE partner has made the investment in skills and resources
> to be able to handle today's finest geometries effectively -
> techniques like SEM based imaging for circuit extraction. Within the
> semiconductor industry, Semiconductor Insights has participated in
> virtually every major licensing campaign over the past 14 years, and
> counts 47 of the top 50 companies among our clients.
>
> For more information on Reverse Engineering and how it can be applied
> in a legal environment, Semiconductor Insights offers a complimentary
> one-hour CLE accredited seminar. For more information and/or to
> register contact Simone LeClaire at simonel [at] semiconductor.com.
There are several types of reverse engineering:
1: If you take it apart and learn how it works, then make a copy
with the same logic and work the same way, then it's copy-right
infringement.
2: If you take it apart and learn how it works, but make something
different with different logic, but it works the same way, then this is
not copy-right infringement. This method has a potential problem that
when the original product change its spec, your product would not work,
and you have to start all over again.
I have experience with product #2. Mentor Graphics had a debugger that
was widely used in the embedded development tools. EST
reverse-engineered this product into a hardware j-tag debugger. Many
companies bought this j-tag debugger for their development work, and
the companies were very happy with the EST j-tag debugger.
Mentor Graphics upgrade their debugger to version 4, a complete new
version. All the EST j-tag debuggers don't work.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221374 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 01:41 |
|
> Reverse-engineering, however, is not a crime nor a fraud.
ppp:
> Oh yes, it is patent-copyright infringement if the copier used exactly
> the same circuit or software solutions. I can't recall the exact name
> of process you are describing, the "clean room process." In this CR
> process a team analyses the functionality of someone else's product
> and writes out the specs on what they wish to emulate and perhaps
> enhance. Then the specs are passed to a clean room design team that
> must NOT have worked on the (someone else's) source chip or program at
> any time. If the team successfully comes up with with a chip or
> software that can emulate the original, and can prove that the design
> team had scruplously not had contact with the original to arrive at
> the product, then they will be absolved from a patent infringement
> lawsuit.
>
> Our Hanxi friend's fraud would have been discovered in no time at all.
For those reasons ....
It is possible, but not plausible that the Hanxi chipset in
question was reversed-engineered as asserted. And, if
reversed-engineered, an expedient and, most likely, il-
legal means was used. That must be why the authority
made the fraudulent declaration so quickly.
There are RE methodologies that withstood court tests.
But one must be mindful that the burden of prove is on
the perpetrator. It requires extremely meticulous docu-
mentation. Prior to the project, all team members must
be background checked. During the project, all of their
external and internal contacts and conversation must be
logged and time stamped.
All evidences of intellectual non-contemination ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221375 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 02:01 |
|
Albert K. Fung wrote:
> rst0:
>
> > AMD had no need to reverse-engineered the Pentium chip as the Pentium
> > is a piece of junk from the beginning. AMD hired a team of chip
> > designers from ex-DEC employees who worked on the DEC Alpha chip. The
> > Alpha is the most advanced chip around, but had the misfortune of being
> > non-compatible to the Intel 8086 instruction set used on the PC.
> >
> > In a way, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) was a victim of
> > non-compatibility. DEC's VAX mainframe computers were the best
> > mainframe ever built, but was not compatible to the IBM Mainframe.
> > Defense Contractors like Lockheed has thousands of VAXs, but the
> > business sectors wouldn't use them. The VAX VMS was the best operating
> > system around. Microsoft stole VAX VMS to start its Windows operating
> > system. We in the know called Microsoft's Windows Operating System the
> > "the better VMS".
>
> Perhaps ....
>
> But DEC, like Wang, Sun, etc. lacked the "vision thing". And failed
> to adapt, thus became road-kills of a galatic paradigm shift in the
> field of computer.
A million mind is better than one. When a "computer" is cheap enough
where the average programmer can get one for his own personal use,
software programs become a cheap commodity. More software usage means
more sales of PC, and this cycle spins itself into a big industry. Is
it someone's vision or are we all riding on the tail-wind? Had the IBM
team using the Motorola 6800 processor came out first, Motorola would
be today's king of processors instead of Intel. Or if Dr. Gary Kildall
was at the office when the IBM representatives arrived at Digital
Research in Monterey, there wouldn't be a Microsoft today.
>
> Even the once mighty IBM failed to lead with the Moore's law.
IBM didn't fail in Moore's Law. IBM failed to see the potential of the
PC and they gave it away.
>
> And became its victim. Now Microsoft the empire is trying to strike
> back at the likes of Google and Yahoo. However, after spactacular
> failure to forsee the netage, even Microsoft's cagey founder's fully
> aware of opportunity lost and his own failing intellect.
We shall find out in 10 years or 15.
>
> As to Alpha, it was an admirable but futile effort on the part of DEC
> to reclaim its past glory. But they failed the Darwinian selection and
> the market moved on.
>
> AMD persisted. They've been reversed engineering processor after
> processor from Intel.
AMD did not reverse-engineered any Intel chip. AMD chips are far
superior to Intel chips today. Even the industry is believing in AMD
now. The coming generation of Intel chips will tell whether Intel will
around or not. If they can not beat out AMD's Opteron, good-bye,
Intel.
> It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
At least one of them. Guess which one?
>
> =E6=B2=89=E8=88=9F=E5=81=B4=E7=95=94=E5=8D=83=E5=B8=86=E9=81 =8E, =E7=97=
=85=E6=A8=B9=E5=89=8D=E9=A0=AD=E8=90=AC=E6=9C=A8=E6=98=A5 ....
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
>
> Regards,
>=20
> Albert K. Fung
> Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221378 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 02:17 |
|
> It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
rst0:
> At least one of them. Guess which one?
The market has already voted ....
Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
a telling sign.
PC will extinct within the next decade ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221385 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 03:11 |
|
Albert K. Fung wrote:
> > It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> > another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> > will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
>
> rst0:
>
> > At least one of them. Guess which one?
>
> The market has already voted ....
>
> Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> a telling sign.
The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
and versatile and more widely used.
>
> PC will extinct within the next decade ....
I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
with huge storage.
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221391 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 04:45 |
|
On 5 Jul 2006 18:11:20 -0700, "rst0" <rst0wxyz [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
>with huge storage.
I can't think of a gadget that will replace the usefulness of the PC.
It will be around for a long time.
I think we all want our screen to be at least 14 inch and a standard
sized keyboard. Within those parameters a lot more extra features
will be squeezed into the box as PCBs get smaller. The significant
advances will be more battery life and the replacement of the disk
drive with a solid state disk of much greater capacity. This solid
state disk is already being offered. I am not at all looking forward
to MS new OS release for 2007. Already I find the current one
bloated.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221393 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 04:55 |
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p... [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2006 18:11:20 -0700, "rst0" <rst0wxyz [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> >with huge storage.
>
> I can't think of a gadget that will replace the usefulness of the PC.
> It will be around for a long time.
>
> I think we all want our screen to be at least 14 inch and a standard
> sized keyboard. Within those parameters a lot more extra features
> will be squeezed into the box as PCBs get smaller. The significant
> advances will be more battery life and the replacement of the disk
> drive with a solid state disk of much greater capacity. This solid
> state disk is already being offered. I am not at all looking forward
> to MS new OS release for 2007. Already I find the current one
> bloated.
The Vista version suppports 64-bit processing, the first and only
64-bit PC OS. It will probably require 512MB memory to run. Just
think of the huge amount of works require to update all the software to
run on 64-bits. And good-bye to 32-bit processors, millions and
millions of outdated 32-bit PCs to pollute the world.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221401 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 04:43 |
|
throughout the passage,
this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
how do he know 10 years ?
how do he know to write programs ?
roman is not built in a day,
this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
rst0 wrote:
> Albert K. Fung wrote:
>
>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
>>
>>rst0:
>>
>>
>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
>>
>>The market has already voted ....
>>
>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
>>a telling sign.
>
>
> The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
> Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
> I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
> indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
> Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
> and versatile and more widely used.
>
>
>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
>
>
> I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> with huge storage.
>
>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Albert K. Fung
>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
>
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221411 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 05:54 |
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On 5 Jul 2006 19:55:59 -0700, "rst0" <rst0wxyz [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>The Vista version suppports 64-bit processing, the first and only
>64-bit PC OS. It will probably require 512MB memory to run. Just
>think of the huge amount of works require to update all the software to
>run on 64-bits. And good-bye to 32-bit processors, millions and
>millions of outdated 32-bit PCs to pollute the world.
I am hanging on to my present stuff. I don't do video games. I don't
do heavy graphics calculations. I don't do calculations period. The
AT was pretty good enough until it died.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221430 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 08:25 |
|
Albert K. Fung wrote:
> Reverse-engineering, however, is not a crime nor a fraud.
>
> For it is a fairly involved and highly complicated process. In it,
> corporate lawyers are, by necessity, involved. It is their job to
> ensure straight adherence to the "cleanroom" doctrine. When
> challenged, they must present documented proof that none of
> the team members had seen or was worked on the chip set to
> be reverse-engineered. Using that process, AMD successfully
> reverse-engineered Intel's Pentium processor. But it took them
> many years, and its validity withstood Intel's court challenges.
In reality, AMD did not "reverse-engineer" the Intel chip -- it
just made one that matches the external behavior of the Intel chip.
There is a huge difference, even though it was to the advantage
of Intel that people conflate the two.
Note that Intel did not copyright/patent the design of the
instruction set itself. Had it done that, AMD would not be able
to market a replacement for the Intel chip. Thus, in this
particular case, the lack of legal exclusion (via copyright/
patent) forster innovation and competition.
Tak
Tak
--
------------------------------------------------------------ ----+-----
Tak To takto [at] alum.mit.eduxx
------------------------------------------------------------ --------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221872 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 16:36 |
|
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 02:25:58 -0400, Tak To <takto [at] alum.mit.edu.->
wrote:
>In reality, AMD did not "reverse-engineer" the Intel chip -- it
>just made one that matches the external behavior of the Intel chip.
>There is a huge difference, even though it was to the advantage
>of Intel that people conflate the two.
And our Mr. Fung had a lot of other misconceptions too about the
technology world. A lot of famous and once mighty companies failed
and even IBM had a near death experience not because of Moores Law or
because they didn't move fast enough or any of the other pat answers
about dinosaur-minded management. These companies, WANG, DEC, and
many others I can't recall now, had legions of the best and brightest
brains in the industry. They knew very well the competition, the
industry trends and they had the latest in any technolgies to jump in
with an equivalent product. They failed because entirely new ideas of
doing things were made possible with the advent of cheap computing
power. Power available to everyone for just a thousand or two
dollars, cheaper than a fancy stereo system. The name of the game for
those who would provide these new ideas and products was to be first
past the post. There may be one or two more who will make it into the
race. The rest will be excluded no matter how great they were. Thus
names that came from nowhere could become global giants almost
overnight whilst Fortune 500 companies that had been around for a few
decades would find themselves hung out to die.
Being first past the post is no guarantee of success either as the
halls of invention are littered with brilliant products that somehow
weren't compelling enough to attract a broad auidience. Attend a few
technie conventions to get the feel of what is going on. There will
be a lot of bright and shiny guy toys that you would like to have but
won't. Because they weren't compelling enough for you open your
wallet for.
If you (Fung) think it easy to come up with an original idea you
wouldn't be spending your time writing on this newsgroup. You'd be
out there enjoying yourself figuring out how you can make it happen,
never mind about making money. Do not come up with condescending
comments how those once mighty companies could have failed when even
you could have told them they were plain dumb.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221873 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 16:36 |
|
Tak To:
> In reality, AMD did not "reverse-engineer" the Intel chip -- it
> just made one that matches the external behavior of the Intel chip.
> There is a huge difference, even though it was to the advantage
> of Intel that people conflate the two.
External interfaces ....
Are integral part of the design of a system or subsystem.
It is the functional specification of a chipset. Therefore, if
one uses a part of someone else's design, instruction set
in the case of the Intel family of CPU's, it is bona fide R/E.
Even if AMD were to use seaweeds for the purpose .... :)
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221875 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 16:57 |
|
rst0:
> AMD did not reverse-engineered any Intel chip. AMD chips are far
> superior to Intel chips today. Even the industry is believing in AMD
> now. The coming generation of Intel chips will tell whether Intel will
> around or not. If they can not beat out AMD's Opteron, good-bye,
> Intel.
Here's the formal definition of RE ....
Reverse engineering (RE) is the process of discovering the tech-
nological principles of a mechanical application through analysis
of its structure, function and operation. It often involves taking
something (e.g., a mechanical device, an electronic component,
a software program) apart and analyzing its workings in detail,
usually with the intention to construct a new device or program
that does the same thing without actually copying anything from
the original. The verb form is to reverse-engineer.
A telling analogy of RE is that the research of physical laws can
be seen as reverse-engineering the world itself.
Under United States law, reverse engineering a patented item can
be infringement;however, if the artifact or process is protected by
trade secrets instead of by a patent, then reverse-engineering the
artifact or process is lawful as long as the artifact or process is ob-
tained legitimately. In fact, one common motivation of reverse en-
gineering is to determine whether a competitor's product infringes
on your patents.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
A CPU chip's instruction set is the device's specification of function
and operation. Had AMD used the M68000's instruction set, it would
be considered a reverse engineered product from Motorola. Unless
the latter patented the CPU.
In that case, AMD must observe the exclusive injunction ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221878 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:13 |
|
ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 02:25:58 -0400, Tak To <takto [at] alum.mit.edu.->
> wrote:
>
> >In reality, AMD did not "reverse-engineer" the Intel chip -- it
> >just made one that matches the external behavior of the Intel chip.
> >There is a huge difference, even though it was to the advantage
> >of Intel that people conflate the two.
>
>
> And our Mr. Fung had a lot of other misconceptions too about the
> technology world. A lot of famous and once mighty companies failed
> and even IBM had a near death experience not because of Moores Law or
> because they didn't move fast enough or any of the other pat answers
> about dinosaur-minded management. These companies, WANG, DEC, and
> many others I can't recall now, had legions of the best and brightest
> brains in the industry. They knew very well the competition, the
> industry trends and they had the latest in any technolgies to jump in
> with an equivalent product. They failed because entirely new ideas of
> doing things were made possible with the advent of cheap computing
> power. Power available to everyone for just a thousand or two
> dollars, cheaper than a fancy stereo system.
Here's Moore's law:
The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate
of roughly a factor of two per year.
It governs cost and function (complexity) ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221885 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:20 |
|
Gee, lecherdog, you are indeed a sad person (or dog). Your follow-up
only showed your bitterness. Did he really beat you that bad? Ok,
let's see if you can write a witty follow-up not your usual meaningless
and filty ones.
lechergod wrote:
> throughout the passage,
> this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
> how do he know 10 years ?
> how do he know to write programs ?
> roman is not built in a day,
> this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
> typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
>
>
> rst0 wrote:
>
> > Albert K. Fung wrote:
> >
> >>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> >>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> >>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
> >>
> >>rst0:
> >>
> >>
> >>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
> >>
> >>The market has already voted ....
> >>
> >>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> >>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> >>a telling sign.
> >
> >
> > The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
> > Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
> > I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
> > indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
> > Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
> > and versatile and more widely used.
> >
> >
> >>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
> >
> >
> > I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> > with huge storage.
> >
> >
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Albert K. Fung
> >>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221896 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:36 |
|
PC will extinct within the next decade ....? Then where will people
run word, spreadsheet, store their [confidential] data, etc? I can
imagine functionality of PC will be part of big intelligent box but can
not imagine PC will exitinct in 10 yeas.
Albert K. Fung wrote:
> > It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> > another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> > will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
>
> rst0:
>
> > At least one of them. Guess which one?
>
> The market has already voted ....
>
> Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> a telling sign.
>
> PC will extinct within the next decade ....
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
|
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221899 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:39 |
|
what a bug you are to write for you ?????
really idiotic moron !!!!!
everything is to fuck you communists' dogs !!!
this communists' dog still put up a 'thick face' to beg for mercy !!!!
ha ha ha ha
abianchen [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> Gee, lecherdog, you are indeed a sad person (or dog). Your follow-up
> only showed your bitterness. Did he really beat you that bad? Ok,
> let's see if you can write a witty follow-up not your usual meaningless
> and filty ones.
>
>
> lechergod wrote:
>
>>throughout the passage,
>>this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
>>how do he know 10 years ?
>>how do he know to write programs ?
>>roman is not built in a day,
>>this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
>>typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
>>
>>
>>rst0 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Albert K. Fung wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
>>>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
>>>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
>>>>
>>>>rst0:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
>>>>
>>>>The market has already voted ....
>>>>
>>>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
>>>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
>>>>a telling sign.
>>>
>>>
>>>The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
>>>Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
>>>I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
>>>indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
>>>Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
>>>and versatile and more widely used.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
>>>
>>>
>>>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
>>>with huge storage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Albert K. Fung
>>>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
>>>
>>>
>>---
>>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
>>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
>
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221900 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:41 |
|
this comunists' dog is blind to see such words are written by his colleague
rst0 !!!!!!
that is communists' dog's trick to lay sin on Albert Fung,
by not replying to rst0's post but Albert Fung's !!!!
that is communists' dog !!!!!
abianchen [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> PC will extinct within the next decade ....? Then where will people
> run word, spreadsheet, store their [confidential] data, etc? I can
> imagine functionality of PC will be part of big intelligent box but can
> not imagine PC will exitinct in 10 yeas.
>
>
> Albert K. Fung wrote:
>
>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
>>
>>rst0:
>>
>>
>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
>>
>>The market has already voted ....
>>
>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
>>a telling sign.
>>
>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Albert K. Fung
>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
>
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221901 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:50 |
|
lechergod wrote:
> throughout the passage,
> this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
> how do he know 10 years ?
> how do he know to write programs ?
I have worked with computers for the past 50 years. I have designed
and developed software to design guided missiles, tracked Gemini
Spacecraft. On one particular mission, the spacecraft was tumbling in
space, and my station was the only one tracking it (I was on a tracking
ship in the Pacific Ocean). Even land radar stations could not track
it. I have worked on IBM Mainframe computers to military computers,
very specialized computers, to today's PC. Don't tell me I can not
write programs. I can probably design a better computer chip than Dr.
Chen Jin of Hanxin Corp fame, who did not design one, but stole one.
> roman is not built in a day,
You're wrong as usual, lecher dog. Rome was built in a day. Rome was
built before there were Roman Empire.
> this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
When you know it, it is a simple toy, lecher dog. To you, it's a
complex box.
> typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
>
> rst0 wrote:
>
> > Albert K. Fung wrote:
> >
> >>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> >>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> >>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
> >>
> >>rst0:
> >>
> >>
> >>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
> >>
> >>The market has already voted ....
> >>
> >>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> >>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> >>a telling sign.
> >
> >
> > The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
> > Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
> > I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
> > indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
> > Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
> > and versatile and more widely used.
> >
> >
> >>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
> >
> >
> > I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> > with huge storage.
> >
> >
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Albert K. Fung
> >>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221902 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:53 |
|
lechergod wrote:
> what a bug you are to write for you ?????
> really idiotic moron !!!!!
> everything is to fuck you communists' dogs !!!
For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
surely will die in your sleep soon.
> this communists' dog still put up a 'thick face' to beg for mercy !!!!
> ha ha ha ha
lecher dog, you can not even put a sentence together properly.
>
>
> abianchen [at] my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Gee, lecherdog, you are indeed a sad person (or dog). Your follow-up
> > only showed your bitterness. Did he really beat you that bad? Ok,
> > let's see if you can write a witty follow-up not your usual meaningless
> > and filty ones.
> >
> >
> > lechergod wrote:
> >
> >>throughout the passage,
> >>this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
> >>how do he know 10 years ?
> >>how do he know to write programs ?
> >>roman is not built in a day,
> >>this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
> >>typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
> >>
> >>
> >>rst0 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Albert K. Fung wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> >>>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> >>>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
> >>>>
> >>>>rst0:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
> >>>>
> >>>>The market has already voted ....
> >>>>
> >>>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> >>>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> >>>>a telling sign.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
> >>>Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
> >>>I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
> >>>indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
> >>>Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
> >>>and versatile and more widely used.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> >>>with huge storage.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>Albert K. Fung
> >>>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>---
> >>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> >>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221904 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 17:57 |
|
On 6 Jul 2006 08:13:52 -0700, "Albert K. Fung" <akwfung [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Here's Moore's law:
>
>The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate
>of roughly a factor of two per year.
>
>It governs cost and function (complexity) ....
>
>Regards,
>
>Albert K. Fung
>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moores_law
Moore's Law is the 1965 prediction by Gordon Moore (co-founder of
Intel) that the transistor density of semiconductor chips would double
roughly every 18 months.
All it is applicable to is the reduction of the size of design
components in chip fabrication. With smaller size one can pack more
circuitry into a given chip. With smaller size and higher density
comes higher clock speeds, less power required and therefore less heat
generated, etc. Moore's Law is now coming up against a fundamental
barrier in that at nanometer size materials act differently.
Whatever, Moore's law has nothing to do with kosher/non kosher reverse
engineering or with business success.
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221905 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 18:15 |
|
Albert K. Fung wrote:
> rst0:
>
> > AMD did not reverse-engineered any Intel chip. AMD chips are far
> > superior to Intel chips today. Even the industry is believing in AMD
> > now. The coming generation of Intel chips will tell whether Intel will
> > around or not. If they can not beat out AMD's Opteron, good-bye,
> > Intel.
>
> Here's the formal definition of RE ....
>
> Reverse engineering (RE) is the process of discovering the tech-
> nological principles of a mechanical application through analysis
> of its structure, function and operation. It often involves taking
> something (e.g., a mechanical device, an electronic component,
> a software program) apart and analyzing its workings in detail,
> usually with the intention to construct a new device or program
> that does the same thing without actually copying anything from
> the original. The verb form is to reverse-engineer.
>
> A telling analogy of RE is that the research of physical laws can
> be seen as reverse-engineering the world itself.
>
> Under United States law, reverse engineering a patented item can
> be infringement;however, if the artifact or process is protected by
> trade secrets instead of by a patent, then reverse-engineering the
> artifact or process is lawful as long as the artifact or process is ob-
> tained legitimately. In fact, one common motivation of reverse en-
> gineering is to determine whether a competitor's product infringes
> on your patents.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
>
> A CPU chip's instruction set is the device's specification of function
> and operation. Had AMD used the M68000's instruction set, it would
> be considered a reverse engineered product from Motorola. Unless
> the latter patented the CPU.
>
> In that case, AMD must observe the exclusive injunction ....
In the case of the government vs A.T. & T. (the old A.T. & T.)...
led to an antitrust suit by the U.S. government against AT&T. The suit
began in 1974 and was settled in January 1982 when AT&T agreed to
divest itself of the wholly owned Bell operating companies that
provided local exchange service. This would, the government believed,
separate those parts of AT&T (the local exchanges) where the natural
monopoly argument was still seen as valid from those parts (long
distance, manufacturing, research and development), where competition
was appropriate. In return, the U.S. Department of Justice agreed to
lift the constraints of the 1956 decree. Divestiture took place on
January 1, 1984, and the Bell System was dead. In its place was a new
AT&T and seven regional Bell operating companies
If Intel had patented the instruction set, it would probably led to the
same conclusion.
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert K. Fung
> Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221913 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 18:12 |
|
ha ha ha ha
computer didn't have a history of 50 years !!!!
that is the habit of a bitch-woman's talking behaviour !!!
[rome is not built in a day] is an english idiom,
how poor the english is this bitch-woman and the quarrelsome manner !!!
this bitch-woman dare to say [just know it] by dreaming !!!
ha ha ha
really this bitch-woman knows not she is speaking to someone who had been
compiling computer programs since it is still in DOS era !!!
bitch-woman is always like this !!!!
rst0 wrote:
> lechergod wrote:
>
>>throughout the passage,
>>this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
>>how do he know 10 years ?
>>how do he know to write programs ?
>
>
> I have worked with computers for the past 50 years. I have designed
> and developed software to design guided missiles, tracked Gemini
> Spacecraft. On one particular mission, the spacecraft was tumbling in
> space, and my station was the only one tracking it (I was on a tracking
> ship in the Pacific Ocean). Even land radar stations could not track
> it. I have worked on IBM Mainframe computers to military computers,
> very specialized computers, to today's PC. Don't tell me I can not
> write programs. I can probably design a better computer chip than Dr.
> Chen Jin of Hanxin Corp fame, who did not design one, but stole one.
>
>
>
>>roman is not built in a day,
>
>
> You're wrong as usual, lecher dog. Rome was built in a day. Rome was
> built before there were Roman Empire.
>
>
>>this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
>
>
> When you know it, it is a simple toy, lecher dog. To you, it's a
> complex box.
>
>
>>typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
>
>
>
> For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
>
>
>>
>>rst0 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Albert K. Fung wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
>>>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
>>>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
>>>>
>>>>rst0:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
>>>>
>>>>The market has already voted ....
>>>>
>>>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
>>>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
>>>>a telling sign.
>>>
>>>
>>>The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
>>>Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
>>>I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
>>>indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
>>>Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
>>>and versatile and more widely used.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
>>>
>>>
>>>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
>>>with huge storage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Albert K. Fung
>>>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
>>>
>>>
>>---
>>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
>>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
>
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221914 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 18:44 |
|
> In that case, AMD must observe the exclusive injunction ....
rst0:
> In the case of the government vs A.T. & T. (the old A.T. & T.)...
>
> led to an antitrust suit by the U.S. government against AT&T. The suit
> began in 1974 and was settled in January 1982 when AT&T agreed to
> divest itself of the wholly owned Bell operating companies that
> provided local exchange service. This would, the government believed,
> separate those parts of AT&T (the local exchanges) where the natural
> monopoly argument was still seen as valid from those parts (long
> distance, manufacturing, research and development), where competition
> was appropriate. In return, the U.S. Department of Justice agreed to
> lift the constraints of the 1956 decree. Divestiture took place on
> January 1, 1984, and the Bell System was dead. In its place was a new
> AT&T and seven regional Bell operating companies
>
> If Intel had patented the instruction set, it would probably led to the
> same conclusion.
Not at all ....
One must not confuse patent law with the anti-monopololy one.
Some founders of the USA were inventors themselves and un-
derstood the importance of protecting the works of intellect of
talented individuals. Via the constitution, they gave very broad
instruction to US federal government to establish patent office.
Which grants temporally exclusive right to worthy invention.
The current time limit is 17 years. After which, it will become a
public property. Generic drugs are the beneficiaries of the law.
Note that R/E is not the only means to compete. Many did have
their own designs, Motorola's M68000, DEC's Alpha, and IBM's
RISC were a few notable ones. Even if Intel were to patent the
design, all were not lost.
Post patent expiration, AMD could make generic CPU's .... :)
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221916 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 18:48 |
|
On 6 Jul 2006 09:15:13 -0700, "rst0" <rst0wxyz [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>If Intel had patented the instruction set, it would probably led to the
>same conclusion.
All computers work on machine code. That code is not patentable.
Assembly language and the CPU instruction set are just English
language readable improvements on machine code. To patent an
instruction set will doom it as other descriptors or abbreviations can
be substituted for the same machine code instructions.
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221917 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 18:55 |
|
lechergod wrote:
> ha ha ha ha
> computer didn't have a history of 50 years !!!!
That just tell how much you know, lecher dog, which is nothing. I used
IBM mainframe computer in the 1950s in college.
> that is the habit of a bitch-woman's talking behaviour !!!
For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
> [rome is not built in a day] is an english idiom,
> how poor the english is this bitch-woman and the quarrelsome manner !!!
>
> this bitch-woman dare to say [just know it] by dreaming !!!
For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
surely will die in your sleep soon.
> ha ha ha
> really this bitch-woman knows not she is speaking to someone who had been
> compiling computer programs since it is still in DOS era !!!
DOS era is very recent, lecher dog. That shows how much you know of
computers, nothing. DOS stands for Disk Operating System. Operating
systems are very new.
> bitch-woman is always like this !!!!
For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
>
>
> rst0 wrote:
>
> > lechergod wrote:
> >
> >>throughout the passage,
> >>this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
> >>how do he know 10 years ?
> >>how do he know to write programs ?
> >
> >
> > I have worked with computers for the past 50 years. I have designed
> > and developed software to design guided missiles, tracked Gemini
> > Spacecraft. On one particular mission, the spacecraft was tumbling in
> > space, and my station was the only one tracking it (I was on a tracking
> > ship in the Pacific Ocean). Even land radar stations could not track
> > it. I have worked on IBM Mainframe computers to military computers,
> > very specialized computers, to today's PC. Don't tell me I can not
> > write programs. I can probably design a better computer chip than Dr.
> > Chen Jin of Hanxin Corp fame, who did not design one, but stole one.
> >
> >
> >
> >>roman is not built in a day,
> >
> >
> > You're wrong as usual, lecher dog. Rome was built in a day. Rome was
> > built before there were Roman Empire.
> >
> >
> >>this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
> >
> >
> > When you know it, it is a simple toy, lecher dog. To you, it's a
> > complex box.
> >
> >
> >>typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
> >
> >
> >
> > For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> > anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> > dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> > can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> > penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> > You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> > someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> > bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> > in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> > than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> > social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> > sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> > surely will die in your sleep soon.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>rst0 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Albert K. Fung wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> >>>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> >>>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
> >>>>
> >>>>rst0:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
> >>>>
> >>>>The market has already voted ....
> >>>>
> >>>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> >>>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> >>>>a telling sign.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
> >>>Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
> >>>I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
> >>>indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
> >>>Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
> >>>and versatile and more widely used.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> >>>with huge storage.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>Albert K. Fung
> >>>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>---
> >>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> >>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221918 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 19:05 |
|
ppp:
> All computers work on machine code. That code is not patentable.
> Assembly language and the CPU instruction set are just English
> language readable improvements on machine code. To patent an
> instruction set will doom it as other descriptors or abbreviations can
> be substituted for the same machine code instructions.
Machine code ....
Is simply layman's term for principles of operation. Which is
copyrightable. It covers, in very precise terms, how the CPU
in question is to interpret a string of bits and bytes: opcode,
addresses (direct as well as indirect), and I/O. Not all CPU's
are made the same way, IBM's RISC, DEC' Alpha, Motorola's
M68000, etc.
All, have different "machine codes" ....
Regards,
Albert K. Fung
Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221919 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 19:01 |
|
ha ha ha
that is bith-woman, knowing not when IBM is establish !!!
tell the netter what 00100101 function,
what is SI, DI, what means jnb !!
let you to find from books !!!!
this bitch-woman can only describe her old-wanton-bug's penis well,
ha ha ha ha ha
rst0 wrote:
> lechergod wrote:
>
>>ha ha ha ha
>>computer didn't have a history of 50 years !!!!
>
>
> That just tell how much you know, lecher dog, which is nothing. I used
> IBM mainframe computer in the 1950s in college.
>
>
>>that is the habit of a bitch-woman's talking behaviour !!!
>
>
>
> For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
>
>
>>[rome is not built in a day] is an english idiom,
>>how poor the english is this bitch-woman and the quarrelsome manner !!!
>>
>>this bitch-woman dare to say [just know it] by dreaming !!!
>
>
>
> For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
>
>
>>ha ha ha
>>really this bitch-woman knows not she is speaking to someone who had been
>>compiling computer programs since it is still in DOS era !!!
>
>
> DOS era is very recent, lecher dog. That shows how much you know of
> computers, nothing. DOS stands for Disk Operating System. Operating
> systems are very new.
>
>
>>bitch-woman is always like this !!!!
>
>
>
> For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>rst0 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>lechergod wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>throughout the passage,
>>>>this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
>>>>how do he know 10 years ?
>>>>how do he know to write programs ?
>>>
>>>
>>>I have worked with computers for the past 50 years. I have designed
>>>and developed software to design guided missiles, tracked Gemini
>>>Spacecraft. On one particular mission, the spacecraft was tumbling in
>>>space, and my station was the only one tracking it (I was on a tracking
>>>ship in the Pacific Ocean). Even land radar stations could not track
>>>it. I have worked on IBM Mainframe computers to military computers,
>>>very specialized computers, to today's PC. Don't tell me I can not
>>>write programs. I can probably design a better computer chip than Dr.
>>>Chen Jin of Hanxin Corp fame, who did not design one, but stole one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>roman is not built in a day,
>>>
>>>
>>>You're wrong as usual, lecher dog. Rome was built in a day. Rome was
>>>built before there were Roman Empire.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
>>>
>>>
>>>When you know it, it is a simple toy, lecher dog. To you, it's a
>>>complex box.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
>>>anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
>>>dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
>>>can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
>>>penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
>>>You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
>>>someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
>>>bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
>>>in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
>>>than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
>>>social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
>>>sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
>>>surely will die in your sleep soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>rst0 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Albert K. Fung wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
>>>>>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>rst0:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The market has already voted ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
>>>>>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
>>>>>>a telling sign.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
>>>>>Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
>>>>>I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
>>>>>indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
>>>>>Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
>>>>>and versatile and more widely used.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
>>>>>with huge storage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Albert K. Fung
>>>>>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>---
>>>>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
>>>>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>---
>>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
>>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
>
>
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221920 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 19:15 |
|
As always, lecherdog is such an idiot... Here's the computer history
in 1950s.
1950: Remington-Rand acquires Eckert-Mauchly Computer Corp.
1950: SEAC (Standards Eastern Automatic Computer) is delivered to the
National Bureau of Standards.
1951: First Joint Computer Conference is held.
1951: Maurice V. Wilkes introduces the concept of microprogramming.
1951: IEEE Computer Society is formed.
1951: UNIVAC I is installed at the Bureau of Census using a magnetic
tape unit as a buffer memory.
1951: Wang Laboratories, Inc. is founded by An Wang in Boston.
1951: Whirlwind computer becomes operational at MIT. It was the first
real-time computer and was designed by Jay Forrester and Ken Olsen.
1952: First computer manual is written by Fred Gruenberger.
1952: IBM introduces the 701, its first electronic stored-program
computer.
1952: Nixdorf Computer is founded in Germany.
1952: Remington-Rand acquires Engineering Research Associates (ERA).
1952: RCA develops Bizmac with iron-core memory and a magnetic drum
supporting the first database.
1952: UNIVAC I predicts an Eisenhower landslide with 7% of the votes,
just one hour after the polls close.
1952: U.S. Department of Justice sues IBM for monopolizing the
punched-card accounting machine industry.
1953: Burroughs Corp. installs the Universal Digital Electronic
Computer (UDEC) at Wayne State University.
1953: First high-speed printer is developed by Remington-Rand for use
on the Univac.
1953: First magnetic tape device, the IBM 726, is introduced with 100
character-per-inch density and 75 inches-per-second speed.
1953: IBM ships its first stored-program computer, the 701. It is a
vacuum tube, or first generation, computer.
1954: FORTRAN is created by John Backus at IBM. Harlan Herrick runs the
first successful FORTRAN program.
1954: Gene Amdahl develops the first operating system, used on IBM 704.
1955: First SHARE users group meeting is held.
1955: Remington-Rand merges with Sperry Gyroscope to form Sperry-Rand.
1956: APT (Automatic Programmed Tool) is developed by D.T. Ross.
1956: Burroughs acquires Electrodata and the Datatron computer, which
becomes the Burroughs 205.
1956: Government antitrust suit against IBM is settled; consent decree
requires IBM to sell as well as lease machines.
1956: A. Newell, D. Shaw and F. Simon invent IPL (Information
Processing Language.)
1956: RCA ships the Bizmac.
1956: T.J. Watson, Jr. assumes presidency of IBM.
1956: The acronym artificial intelligence is coined by John McCarthy.
....
And in 1956, IBM introduced its 305 RAMAC computer.
http://www.cedmagic.com/history/ibm-305-ramac.html
lechergod wrote:
> ha ha ha ha
> computer didn't have a history of 50 years !!!!
> that is the habit of a bitch-woman's talking behaviour !!!
>
> [rome is not built in a day] is an english idiom,
> how poor the english is this bitch-woman and the quarrelsome manner !!!
>
> this bitch-woman dare to say [just know it] by dreaming !!!
> ha ha ha
> really this bitch-woman knows not she is speaking to someone who had been
> compiling computer programs since it is still in DOS era !!!
> bitch-woman is always like this !!!!
>
>
>
> rst0 wrote:
>
> > lechergod wrote:
> >
> >>throughout the passage,
> >>this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
> >>how do he know 10 years ?
> >>how do he know to write programs ?
> >
> >
> > I have worked with computers for the past 50 years. I have designed
> > and developed software to design guided missiles, tracked Gemini
> > Spacecraft. On one particular mission, the spacecraft was tumbling in
> > space, and my station was the only one tracking it (I was on a tracking
> > ship in the Pacific Ocean). Even land radar stations could not track
> > it. I have worked on IBM Mainframe computers to military computers,
> > very specialized computers, to today's PC. Don't tell me I can not
> > write programs. I can probably design a better computer chip than Dr.
> > Chen Jin of Hanxin Corp fame, who did not design one, but stole one.
> >
> >
> >
> >>roman is not built in a day,
> >
> >
> > You're wrong as usual, lecher dog. Rome was built in a day. Rome was
> > built before there were Roman Empire.
> >
> >
> >>this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
> >
> >
> > When you know it, it is a simple toy, lecher dog. To you, it's a
> > complex box.
> >
> >
> >>typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
> >
> >
> >
> > For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> > anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> > dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> > can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> > penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> > You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> > someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> > bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> > in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> > than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> > social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> > sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> > surely will die in your sleep soon.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>rst0 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Albert K. Fung wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> >>>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> >>>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
> >>>>
> >>>>rst0:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
> >>>>
> >>>>The market has already voted ....
> >>>>
> >>>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> >>>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> >>>>a telling sign.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
> >>>Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
> >>>I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
> >>>indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
> >>>Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
> >>>and versatile and more widely used.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> >>>with huge storage.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>Albert K. Fung
> >>>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>---
> >>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> >>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
|
|
|
| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221923 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 19:42 |
|
lechergod wrote:
> ha ha ha
> that is bith-woman, knowing not when IBM is establish !!!
> tell the netter what 00100101 function,
> what is SI, DI, what means jnb !!
> let you to find from books !!!!
An ignorant fool can only say ignorant words.
lecher dog, I invited you for dim sum in Hong Kong this September, and
you didn't even respond to my email. What is the matter? Are you
afraid to show your face?
>
> this bitch-woman can only describe her old-wanton-bug's penis well,
For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
surely will die in your sleep soon.
> ha ha ha ha ha
>
For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
surely will die in your sleep soon.
>
> rst0 wrote:
>
> > lechergod wrote:
> >
> >>ha ha ha ha
> >>computer didn't have a history of 50 years !!!!
> >
> >
> > That just tell how much you know, lecher dog, which is nothing. I used
> > IBM mainframe computer in the 1950s in college.
> >
> >
> >>that is the habit of a bitch-woman's talking behaviour !!!
> >
> >
> >
> > For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> > anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> > dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> > can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> > penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> > You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> > someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> > bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> > in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> > than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> > social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> > sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> > surely will die in your sleep soon.
> >
> >
> >
> >>[rome is not built in a day] is an english idiom,
> >>how poor the english is this bitch-woman and the quarrelsome manner !!!
> >>
> >>this bitch-woman dare to say [just know it] by dreaming !!!
> >
> >
> >
> > For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> > anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> > dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> > can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> > penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> > You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> > someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> > bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> > in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> > than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> > social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> > sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> > surely will die in your sleep soon.
> >
> >
> >
> >>ha ha ha
> >>really this bitch-woman knows not she is speaking to someone who had been
> >>compiling computer programs since it is still in DOS era !!!
> >
> >
> > DOS era is very recent, lecher dog. That shows how much you know of
> > computers, nothing. DOS stands for Disk Operating System. Operating
> > systems are very new.
> >
> >
> >>bitch-woman is always like this !!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> > anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> > dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> > can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> > penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> > You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> > someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> > bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> > in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> > than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> > social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> > sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> > surely will die in your sleep soon.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>rst0 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>lechergod wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>throughout the passage,
> >>>>this rst0 is just like a lunatic dreamer!
> >>>>how do he know 10 years ?
> >>>>how do he know to write programs ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I have worked with computers for the past 50 years. I have designed
> >>>and developed software to design guided missiles, tracked Gemini
> >>>Spacecraft. On one particular mission, the spacecraft was tumbling in
> >>>space, and my station was the only one tracking it (I was on a tracking
> >>>ship in the Pacific Ocean). Even land radar stations could not track
> >>>it. I have worked on IBM Mainframe computers to military computers,
> >>>very specialized computers, to today's PC. Don't tell me I can not
> >>>write programs. I can probably design a better computer chip than Dr.
> >>>Chen Jin of Hanxin Corp fame, who did not design one, but stole one.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>roman is not built in a day,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You're wrong as usual, lecher dog. Rome was built in a day. Rome was
> >>>built before there were Roman Empire.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>this maniac speaks as it is a simple toy !!!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>When you know it, it is a simple toy, lecher dog. To you, it's a
> >>>complex box.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>typically as a quarrelsome bitch !!!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>For a lonely son of a bitch you are, you certainly have no right to say
> >>>anything about sex as you have never had any. You can not fuck, lecher
> >>>dog. You got drooping wet noodle penis, no balls, and no sperm. You
> >>>can not even masturbate. Your drooping wet noodle penis can not
> >>>penetrate water. You can only write about sex. You can not perform.
> >>>You are old 60+ Chinaman pig with big potbelly. Your wife left you for
> >>>someone else. You are going to die in your sleep soon. No one is a
> >>>bigger son of a bitch than you are, lecher dog. You are going to die
> >>>in your sleep soon. No one is a bigger asshole rice licking jackass
> >>>than you are. You are going to die in your sleep soon. You have no
> >>>social skills, no manners, no friend. You are going to die in your
> >>>sleep soon. You are a psycho case. Go see a psychiatrist or you
> >>>surely will die in your sleep soon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>rst0 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Albert K. Fung wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>It is on the verge of paying off. Unfortunately,
> >>>>>>>another galatic paradigm shift will soon be upon us. And the tsuami
> >>>>>>>will certainly sweep away the two worthy protagonists.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>rst0:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>At least one of them. Guess which one?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The market has already voted ....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Both, are fighting each other going down, bring with them
> >>>>>>the likes of Dell and HP. Lenovo buying IBM's PC division is
> >>>>>>a telling sign.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The interest rate is up, the price of a barrel of oil is up, North
> >>>>>Korea is testing missiles,... It's not surprising the market is down.
> >>>>>I also notice qcom is down to 38.17 with a p/e of 28 now. Does it also
> >>>>>indicate that your "best and the brightest" are not doing so great?
> >>>>>Well, anyway, the PC will not die. It will only become more powerful
> >>>>>and versatile and more widely used.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>PC will extinct within the next decade ....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I disagree. PC will become smaller and more powerful and versatile
> >>>>>with huge storage.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Albert K. Fung
> >>>>>>Monticito/Santa Ysabel, California, USA.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>---
> >>>>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> >>>>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>---
> >>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> >>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
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| Re: Ouch: China's IT Scandals [message #221924 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 20:06 |
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On 6 Jul 2006 10:05:19 -0700, "Albert K. Fung" <akwfung [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>Is simply layman's term for principles of operation.
Mr. Fung. Quit while you are ahead.
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