CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report

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Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report

CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222303]

Sa, 08 Juli 2006 17:29

Micky Wong

Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.

Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.

Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report

Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
Falun Gong prisoners.

Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
45-page long report on the illegal practice.

"The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
said during the press conference.

The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
in different parts of China.

"This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.

But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."

Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
organ harvesting.

"We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.

Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.

The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
supports these charges.

"The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.

According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.

Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
promising organs in a week or two.

"That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.

In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.

The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
asking for Falun Gong organs.

During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:

* Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
* A: "Quite a few."
* Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
* A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
quality in our operation."
* Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
* A: "Correct."

In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.

The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.

With a report from The Canadian Press

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222381 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 03:56

fyfpoon

If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
central government itself.

In order to have enough FLG practitioners for organ harvesting, you
need:

(1)enough individuals who claim to be FLG members going out into the
street to protest or demonstrate.
(2)since the court cannot hand out death sentences for demonstration,
the secret police has to step in for the arrest and execution as the
whole thing cannot pass through the legal system.
(3)various centres for organ harvesting are set up all over the country
to pick up dead bodies from the department of Securities Bureau..
(4)an army of specialists is transferred from state hospitals
nationwide.
(5)massive advertising effort is carried out to sell these organs to
both domestic and foreign buyers. But the lack of organ for transplant
in China contradicts this.
(6)all these centres have to have connection with hospital all over the
country and to do so without the knowledge of civil police.

I am afraid that the profit from all the exercises above is a drop in
the bucket in comparison with the large amount of foreign exchange in
China. The central government has to be crazy enough to have done
something like that.

=========================

Micky Wong wrote:
> Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
> societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
> actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
> bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
> pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
>
> Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
> hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
>
>
> Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
>
> Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
>
> CTV.ca News Staff
>
> The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
> Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
> Falun Gong prisoners.
>
> Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
> David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
> organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
> 45-page long report on the illegal practice.
>
> "The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
> said during the press conference.
>
> The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
> harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
> in different parts of China.
>
> "This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
>
> But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
> described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
>
> Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
> claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
> organ harvesting.
>
> "We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
> will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
> Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
>
> Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
> Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
>
> The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
> supports these charges.
>
> "The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
> cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
> kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
>
> According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
> 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
>
> Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
> promising organs in a week or two.
>
> "That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
> to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
>
> In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
> conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
> requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
>
> The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
> asking for Falun Gong organs.
>
> During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
>
> * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
> * A: "Quite a few."
> * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
> * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
> quality in our operation."
> * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
> * A: "Correct."
>
> In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
> government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
>
> The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
> Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
> Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
>
> With a report from The Canadian Press

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222388 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 04:35

lechergod

you had implied that : launched by the central government itself.
no need to give such false talk !!!!

fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:

> If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> central government itself.
>
> In order to have enough FLG practitioners for organ harvesting, you
> need:
>
> (1)enough individuals who claim to be FLG members going out into the
> street to protest or demonstrate.
> (2)since the court cannot hand out death sentences for demonstration,
> the secret police has to step in for the arrest and execution as the
> whole thing cannot pass through the legal system.
> (3)various centres for organ harvesting are set up all over the country
> to pick up dead bodies from the department of Securities Bureau..
> (4)an army of specialists is transferred from state hospitals
> nationwide.
> (5)massive advertising effort is carried out to sell these organs to
> both domestic and foreign buyers. But the lack of organ for transplant
> in China contradicts this.
> (6)all these centres have to have connection with hospital all over the
> country and to do so without the knowledge of civil police.
>
> I am afraid that the profit from all the exercises above is a drop in
> the bucket in comparison with the large amount of foreign exchange in
> China. The central government has to be crazy enough to have done
> something like that.
>
> =========================
>
>
> Micky Wong wrote:
>
>>Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
>>societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
>>actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
>>bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
>>pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
>>
>>Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
>>hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
>>
>>
>>Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
>>
>>Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
>>
>>CTV.ca News Staff
>>
>>The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
>>Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
>>Falun Gong prisoners.
>>
>>Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
>>David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
>>organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
>>45-page long report on the illegal practice.
>>
>>"The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
>>said during the press conference.
>>
>>The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
>>harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
>>in different parts of China.
>>
>>"This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
>>
>>But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
>>described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
>>
>>Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
>>claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
>>organ harvesting.
>>
>>"We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
>>will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
>>Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
>>
>>Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
>>Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
>>
>>The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
>>supports these charges.
>>
>>"The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
>>cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
>>kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
>>
>>According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
>>2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
>>
>>Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
>>promising organs in a week or two.
>>
>>"That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
>>to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
>>
>>In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
>>conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
>>requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
>>
>>The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
>>asking for Falun Gong organs.
>>
>>During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
>>
>> * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
>> * A: "Quite a few."
>> * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
>> * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
>>quality in our operation."
>> * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
>> * A: "Correct."
>>
>>In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
>>government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
>>
>>The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
>>Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
>>Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
>>
>>With a report from The Canadian Press
>
>

---

Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net

Complaints to news [at] netfront.net

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222398 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 06:06

dick_12345678

how can you assume that chinese people do NOT know this crime.

I told you that most chinese heard something about that.

how can you assume that police will stop this crime if he/she know it.

how can you assume chinese government just kill the person sentenced by
a court

I told you that you can NOT understand CCP with common sense.

the china society is NOT a normal society.

I think the central government kill FLG not for profit but the legal
system and hospitals found the way to earn money.("fei wu li yong" do
you understand?)

I believe that the central government will NOT stop killing FLG even
when organ harvesting is prohibited.

fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> central government itself.
>
> In order to have enough FLG practitioners for organ harvesting, you
> need:
>
> (1)enough individuals who claim to be FLG members going out into the
> street to protest or demonstrate.
> (2)since the court cannot hand out death sentences for demonstration,
> the secret police has to step in for the arrest and execution as the
> whole thing cannot pass through the legal system.
> (3)various centres for organ harvesting are set up all over the country
> to pick up dead bodies from the department of Securities Bureau..
> (4)an army of specialists is transferred from state hospitals
> nationwide.
> (5)massive advertising effort is carried out to sell these organs to
> both domestic and foreign buyers. But the lack of organ for transplant
> in China contradicts this.
> (6)all these centres have to have connection with hospital all over the
> country and to do so without the knowledge of civil police.
>
> I am afraid that the profit from all the exercises above is a drop in
> the bucket in comparison with the large amount of foreign exchange in
> China. The central government has to be crazy enough to have done
> something like that.
>
> =========================
>
>
> Micky Wong wrote:
> > Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
> > societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
> > actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
> > bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
> > pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
> >
> > Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
> > hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
> >
> >
> > Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
> >
> > Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
> >
> > CTV.ca News Staff
> >
> > The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
> > Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
> > Falun Gong prisoners.
> >
> > Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
> > David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
> > organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
> > 45-page long report on the illegal practice.
> >
> > "The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
> > said during the press conference.
> >
> > The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
> > harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
> > in different parts of China.
> >
> > "This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
> >
> > But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
> > described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
> >
> > Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
> > claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
> > organ harvesting.
> >
> > "We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
> > will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
> > Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
> >
> > Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
> > Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
> >
> > The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
> > supports these charges.
> >
> > "The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
> > cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
> > kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
> >
> > According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
> > 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
> >
> > Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
> > promising organs in a week or two.
> >
> > "That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
> > to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
> >
> > In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
> > conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
> > requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
> >
> > The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
> > asking for Falun Gong organs.
> >
> > During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
> >
> > * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
> > * A: "Quite a few."
> > * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
> > * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
> > quality in our operation."
> > * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
> > * A: "Correct."
> >
> > In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
> > government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
> >
> > The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
> > Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
> > Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
> >
> > With a report from The Canadian Press

Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222404 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 07:42

charles_liu

fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> central government itself.

Please, it doesn't take supernormal power to see this is a rehash of
the 70's era "vivisection" anti-communist tall tale.

The Chinese government was involved in one of two US government
investigations. Both the US State Department and Africa, Global Human
Rights & International Operations Subcommittee, found Falung Gong's
live organ harvesting claim not credible.

Please consider sending an email to Daivd Kilgour, the fall-from-grace
Canadian politician who seems to have lached onto this cause:

(kilgoursite [at] ca [dot] inter [dot] net)

Subject: Falun Gong Report Ignoring Volumn Of Contrarian Fact Shows
Lack Of Impartiality

Dear Mr. Kilgour:

I read your Falun Gong report and I am very dissatisfied with your lack
of impartiality evident in your one-sided investigation:

1) you can not divorce yourself from the fact your investigation is
sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently
POLITICAL, as the vilification they heaped on the Chinese government,
unrelated to this allegation, demonstrates - such as "The Nine
Commentaries" and "10 million peple quit the party" political
propaganda ahead of the Chinese leader's stateside visit.

2) Your report failed to account for many contrarian facts that have
brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available
outside China. Not able to go to China does not absolve you of your
duty to critically examine ALL evidence:

* Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of
March, independently found the allegation not credible;

* Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao
with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. FYI
Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critically
on Tiananmen Square Massacre.

* Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu
of Laogai Research Foundation;

* Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which
is a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;

* Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and
mis-representing autopsy photo that do not prove torture or
vivisection. The fact the photo show autopsy being performed and murder
investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposite.

Clear Wisdom's original report on Wang Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(2005)
had no mention of organ harvesting, yet years later these stories are
rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ harvesting accusation.

While China's human rights records should be examined, writing allegory
of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be
precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say
seriousely?

Disappointed,

<signature>

References:

- US State Department investigation:
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-en glish&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.54 43231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html

- US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046- 7583,00.html

- Malaysian government documenting minister visit to hospital accused
by Falun Gong:
http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Strok e%20TrialProtocol%20synopsis.pdf

- Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0 606/07chinese

- HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:
http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm

- A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet,
Epoch Times:
http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-cont roversy.html

- 2000 Clear Wisdom story on Wang Bin, without mentioning of organ
harvesting:
http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html

>
> In order to have enough FLG practitioners for organ harvesting, you
> need:
>
> (1)enough individuals who claim to be FLG members going out into the
> street to protest or demonstrate.
> (2)since the court cannot hand out death sentences for demonstration,
> the secret police has to step in for the arrest and execution as the
> whole thing cannot pass through the legal system.
> (3)various centres for organ harvesting are set up all over the country
> to pick up dead bodies from the department of Securities Bureau..
> (4)an army of specialists is transferred from state hospitals
> nationwide.
> (5)massive advertising effort is carried out to sell these organs to
> both domestic and foreign buyers. But the lack of organ for transplant
> in China contradicts this.
> (6)all these centres have to have connection with hospital all over the
> country and to do so without the knowledge of civil police.
>
> I am afraid that the profit from all the exercises above is a drop in
> the bucket in comparison with the large amount of foreign exchange in
> China. The central government has to be crazy enough to have done
> something like that.
>
> =========================
>
>
> Micky Wong wrote:
> > Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
> > societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
> > actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
> > bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
> > pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
> >
> > Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
> > hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
> >
> >
> > Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
> >
> > Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
> >
> > CTV.ca News Staff
> >
> > The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
> > Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
> > Falun Gong prisoners.
> >
> > Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
> > David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
> > organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
> > 45-page long report on the illegal practice.
> >
> > "The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
> > said during the press conference.
> >
> > The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
> > harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
> > in different parts of China.
> >
> > "This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
> >
> > But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
> > described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
> >
> > Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
> > claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
> > organ harvesting.
> >
> > "We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
> > will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
> > Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
> >
> > Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
> > Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
> >
> > The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
> > supports these charges.
> >
> > "The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
> > cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
> > kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
> >
> > According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
> > 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
> >
> > Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
> > promising organs in a week or two.
> >
> > "That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
> > to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
> >
> > In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
> > conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
> > requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
> >
> > The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
> > asking for Falun Gong organs.
> >
> > During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
> >
> > * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
> > * A: "Quite a few."
> > * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
> > * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
> > quality in our operation."
> > * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
> > * A: "Correct."
> >
> > In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
> > government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
> >
> > The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
> > Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
> > Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
> >
> > With a report from The Canadian Press

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222416 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 09:12

ppp

On 8 Jul 2006 22:42:05 -0700, charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:

>Please consider sending an email to Daivd Kilgour, the fall-from-grace
>Canadian politician who seems to have lached onto this cause:

Its best to leave him alone. He's a has been. He is like a guy who
has caught a bad flu. The illness has to run its course before he
gets better again.

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straighton FLG [message #222418 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 09:40

lechergod

oh!
how pity fyfpoon is, to be left alone, after licking their arsehole so long
!!!!!

ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:

> On 8 Jul 2006 22:42:05 -0700, charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
>>Please consider sending an email to Daivd Kilgour, the fall-from-grace
>>Canadian politician who seems to have lached onto this cause:
>
>
>
> Its best to leave him alone. He's a has been. He is like a guy who
> has caught a bad flu. The illness has to run its course before he
> gets better again.

---

Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net

Complaints to news [at] netfront.net

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222425 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 10:46

fyfpoon

they are referring to that Canadian politician, not fyfpoon.

========================
lechergod wrote:
> oh!
> how pity fyfpoon is, to be left alone, after licking their arsehole so long
> !!!!!
>
>
> ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > On 8 Jul 2006 22:42:05 -0700, charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Please consider sending an email to Daivd Kilgour, the fall-from-grace
> >>Canadian politician who seems to have lached onto this cause:
> >
> >
> >
> > Its best to leave him alone. He's a has been. He is like a guy who
> > has caught a bad flu. The illness has to run its course before he
> > gets better again.
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222427 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 10:47

fyfpoon

Don't you know how to read English?

=====================
lechergod wrote:
> you had implied that : launched by the central government itself.
> no need to give such false talk !!!!
>
>
> fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
>
> > If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> > are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> > central government itself.
> >
> > In order to have enough FLG practitioners for organ harvesting, you
> > need:
> >
> > (1)enough individuals who claim to be FLG members going out into the
> > street to protest or demonstrate.
> > (2)since the court cannot hand out death sentences for demonstration,
> > the secret police has to step in for the arrest and execution as the
> > whole thing cannot pass through the legal system.
> > (3)various centres for organ harvesting are set up all over the country
> > to pick up dead bodies from the department of Securities Bureau..
> > (4)an army of specialists is transferred from state hospitals
> > nationwide.
> > (5)massive advertising effort is carried out to sell these organs to
> > both domestic and foreign buyers. But the lack of organ for transplant
> > in China contradicts this.
> > (6)all these centres have to have connection with hospital all over the
> > country and to do so without the knowledge of civil police.
> >
> > I am afraid that the profit from all the exercises above is a drop in
> > the bucket in comparison with the large amount of foreign exchange in
> > China. The central government has to be crazy enough to have done
> > something like that.
> >
> > =========================
> >
> >
> > Micky Wong wrote:
> >
> >>Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
> >>societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
> >>actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
> >>bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
> >>pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
> >>
> >>Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
> >>hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
> >>
> >>
> >>Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
> >>
> >>Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
> >>
> >>CTV.ca News Staff
> >>
> >>The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
> >>Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
> >>Falun Gong prisoners.
> >>
> >>Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
> >>David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
> >>organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
> >>45-page long report on the illegal practice.
> >>
> >>"The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
> >>said during the press conference.
> >>
> >>The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
> >>harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
> >>in different parts of China.
> >>
> >>"This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
> >>
> >>But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
> >>described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
> >>
> >>Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
> >>claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
> >>organ harvesting.
> >>
> >>"We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
> >>will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
> >>Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
> >>
> >>Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
> >>Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
> >>
> >>The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
> >>supports these charges.
> >>
> >>"The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
> >>cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
> >>kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
> >>
> >>According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
> >>2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
> >>
> >>Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
> >>promising organs in a week or two.
> >>
> >>"That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
> >>to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
> >>
> >>In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
> >>conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
> >>requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
> >>
> >>The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
> >>asking for Falun Gong organs.
> >>
> >>During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
> >>
> >> * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
> >> * A: "Quite a few."
> >> * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
> >> * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
> >>quality in our operation."
> >> * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
> >> * A: "Correct."
> >>
> >>In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
> >>government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
> >>
> >>The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
> >>Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
> >>Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
> >>
> >>With a report from The Canadian Press
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news [at] netfront.net

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222453 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 12:40

lechergod

ha ha ha ha
saying 'unless', you know it is mostly possible !!!!

fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:

> Don't you know how to read English?
>
> =====================
> lechergod wrote:
>
>>you had implied that : launched by the central government itself.
>>no need to give such false talk !!!!
>>
>>
>>fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
>>>are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
>>>central government itself.
>>>
>>>In order to have enough FLG practitioners for organ harvesting, you
>>>need:
>>>
>>>(1)enough individuals who claim to be FLG members going out into the
>>>street to protest or demonstrate.
>>>(2)since the court cannot hand out death sentences for demonstration,
>>>the secret police has to step in for the arrest and execution as the
>>>whole thing cannot pass through the legal system.
>>>(3)various centres for organ harvesting are set up all over the country
>>>to pick up dead bodies from the department of Securities Bureau..
>>>(4)an army of specialists is transferred from state hospitals
>>>nationwide.
>>>(5)massive advertising effort is carried out to sell these organs to
>>>both domestic and foreign buyers. But the lack of organ for transplant
>>>in China contradicts this.
>>>(6)all these centres have to have connection with hospital all over the
>>>country and to do so without the knowledge of civil police.
>>>
>>>I am afraid that the profit from all the exercises above is a drop in
>>>the bucket in comparison with the large amount of foreign exchange in
>>>China. The central government has to be crazy enough to have done
>>>something like that.
>>>
>>>=========================
>>>
>>>
>>>Micky Wong wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
>>>>societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
>>>>actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
>>>>bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
>>>>pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
>>>>
>>>>Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
>>>>hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
>>>>
>>>>Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
>>>>
>>>>CTV.ca News Staff
>>>>
>>>>The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
>>>>Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
>>>>Falun Gong prisoners.
>>>>
>>>>Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
>>>>David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
>>>>organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
>>>>45-page long report on the illegal practice.
>>>>
>>>>"The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
>>>>said during the press conference.
>>>>
>>>>The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
>>>>harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
>>>>in different parts of China.
>>>>
>>>>"This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
>>>>
>>>>But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
>>>>described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
>>>>
>>>>Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
>>>>claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
>>>>organ harvesting.
>>>>
>>>>"We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
>>>>will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
>>>>Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
>>>>
>>>>Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
>>>>Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
>>>>
>>>>The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
>>>>supports these charges.
>>>>
>>>>"The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
>>>>cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
>>>>kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
>>>>
>>>>According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
>>>>2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
>>>>
>>>>Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
>>>>promising organs in a week or two.
>>>>
>>>>"That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
>>>>to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
>>>>
>>>>In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
>>>>conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
>>>>requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
>>>>
>>>>The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
>>>>asking for Falun Gong organs.
>>>>
>>>>During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
>>>>
>>>> * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
>>>> * A: "Quite a few."
>>>> * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
>>>> * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
>>>>quality in our operation."
>>>> * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
>>>> * A: "Correct."
>>>>
>>>>In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
>>>>government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
>>>>
>>>>The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
>>>>Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
>>>>Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
>>>>
>>>>With a report from The Canadian Press
>>>
>>>
>>---
>>Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
>>Complaints to news [at] netfront.net
>
>

---

Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net

Complaints to news [at] netfront.net

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222458 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 14:21

Spokesman

"Micky Wong" <mickywon [at] 11thdimension.ca> wrote in message
news:44afcf63_3 [at] x-privat.org...
>
> Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
> societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
> actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
> bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
> pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
>
> Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
> hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.

The mcguinty government is doing something similar in Ontario by allowing
organs to be harvested from people who have had heart attacks , but are not
clinically brain dead.

>
>
> Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
>
> Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
>
> CTV.ca News Staff
>
> The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
> Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
> Falun Gong prisoners.
>
> Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
> David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
> organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
> 45-page long report on the illegal practice.
>
> "The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
> said during the press conference.
>
> The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
> harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
> in different parts of China.
>
> "This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
>
> But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
> described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
>
> Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
> claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
> organ harvesting.
>
> "We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
> will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
> Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
>
> Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
> Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
>
> The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
> supports these charges.
>
> "The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
> cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
> kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
>
> According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
> 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
>
> Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
> promising organs in a week or two.
>
> "That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
> to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
>
> In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
> conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
> requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
>
> The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
> asking for Falun Gong organs.
>
> During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
>
> * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
> * A: "Quite a few."
> * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
> * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
> quality in our operation."
> * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
> * A: "Correct."
>
> In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
> government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
>
> The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
> Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
> Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
>
> With a report from The Canadian Press
>

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222465 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 15:04

fyfpoon

Spokesman wrote:
> "Micky Wong" <mickywon [at] 11thdimension.ca> wrote in message
> news:44afcf63_3 [at] x-privat.org...
> >
> > Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
> > societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
> > actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
> > bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
> > pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
> >
> > Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
> > hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
>
>
>
>
>
> The mcguinty government is doing something similar in Ontario by allowing
> organs to be harvested from people who have had heart attacks , but are not
> clinically brain dead.
>
Are you accusing the Ontario government of murdering? Who profits from
such act?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
> >
> > Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
> >
> > CTV.ca News Staff
> >
> > The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
> > Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
> > Falun Gong prisoners.
> >
> > Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
> > David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
> > organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
> > 45-page long report on the illegal practice.
> >
> > "The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
> > said during the press conference.
> >
> > The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
> > harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this day
> > in different parts of China.
> >
> > "This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas said.
> >
> > But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' and
> > described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumours."
> >
> > Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
> > claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
> > organ harvesting.
> >
> > "We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, we
> > will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
> > Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
> >
> > Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
> > Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
> >
> > The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
> > supports these charges.
> >
> > "The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took the
> > cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
> > kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
> >
> > According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximately
> > 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
> >
> > Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplants,
> > promising organs in a week or two.
> >
> > "That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are waiting
> > to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
> >
> > In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
> > conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
> > requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
> >
> > The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
> > asking for Falun Gong organs.
> >
> > During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcripts:
> >
> > * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you have?
> > * A: "Quite a few."
> > * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
> > * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
> > quality in our operation."
> > * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
> > * A: "Correct."
> >
> > In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
> > government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
> >
> > The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
> > Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
> > Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
> >
> > With a report from The Canadian Press
> >

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222523 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 22:24

demorising

charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> > are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> > central government itself.
>
> Please, it doesn't take supernormal power to see this is a rehash of
> the 70's era "vivisection" anti-communist tall tale.
>
> The Chinese government was involved in one of two US government
> investigations. Both the US State Department and Africa, Global Human
> Rights & International Operations Subcommittee, found Falung Gong's
> live organ harvesting claim not credible.

Silly Charles. The "investigations" you claim clear China involve only
the specific allegation of a concentration camp at Sujiatun. The report
of David Kilgour concerns the broader issue of organ harvesting of live
FLG throughout China.

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222804 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 03:56

fyfpoon

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222806 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 04:35

lechergod

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222813 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 06:06

dick_12345678

Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222815 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 07:42

charles_liu

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222824 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 10:47

fyfpoon

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222835 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 12:40

lechergod

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222838 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 14:21

Spokesman

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222842 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 15:04

fyfpoon

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222861 ]

So, 09 Juli 2006 22:24

demorising

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222865 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 01:44

fyfpoon

demorising [at] aol.com wrote:
> charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> > fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > > If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> > > are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> > > central government itself.
> >
> > Please, it doesn't take supernormal power to see this is a rehash of
> > the 70's era "vivisection" anti-communist tall tale.
> >
> > The Chinese government was involved in one of two US government
> > investigations. Both the US State Department and Africa, Global Human
> > Rights & International Operations Subcommittee, found Falung Gong's
> > live organ harvesting claim not credible.
>
> Silly Charles. The "investigations" you claim clear China involve only
> the specific allegation of a concentration camp at Sujiatun. The report
> of David Kilgour concerns the broader issue of organ harvesting of live
> FLG throughout China.

In order for live FLG members to be harvested of their organs, there
has to be a subgovernment inside PRC to do that. It is because the
court cannot send anyone to death for demonstrating or for being
suspected a member of the FLG movement. The State Security Bureau has
to step in for (1)killing the FLG members while they are in jail,
(2)harvesting their organs, (3)selling their organs, (4)collecting the
profit into the department, and keeping quiet from the central
government...

Who runs this sub-government???

FP

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222868 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 02:50

demorising

fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> demorising [at] aol.com wrote:
> > charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> > > fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > > > If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> > > > are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> > > > central government itself.
> > >
> > > Please, it doesn't take supernormal power to see this is a rehash of
> > > the 70's era "vivisection" anti-communist tall tale.
> > >
> > > The Chinese government was involved in one of two US government
> > > investigations. Both the US State Department and Africa, Global Human
> > > Rights & International Operations Subcommittee, found Falung Gong's
> > > live organ harvesting claim not credible.
> >
> > Silly Charles. The "investigations" you claim clear China involve only
> > the specific allegation of a concentration camp at Sujiatun. The report
> > of David Kilgour concerns the broader issue of organ harvesting of live
> > FLG throughout China.
>
> In order for live FLG members to be harvested of their organs, there
> has to be a subgovernment inside PRC to do that. It is because the
> court cannot send anyone to death for demonstrating or for being
> suspected a member of the FLG movement. The State Security Bureau has
> to step in for (1)killing the FLG members while they are in jail,
> (2)harvesting their organs, (3)selling their organs, (4)collecting the
> profit into the department, and keeping quiet from the central
> government...
>
> Who runs this sub-government???
>
> FP

The "sub-government" of which you speak is called the 610 Office and is
run by Luo Gan:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/china_politic s/leadership/html/10.stm

http://www.chinavitae.com/biography_display.php?id=27

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straighton FLG [message #222871 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 04:15

dick_12345678

what a gentleman.

demorising [at] aol.com wrote:
> fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
>
>>demorising [at] aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
>>>>>are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
>>>>>central government itself.
>>>>
>>>>Please, it doesn't take supernormal power to see this is a rehash of
>>>>the 70's era "vivisection" anti-communist tall tale.
>>>>
>>>>The Chinese government was involved in one of two US government
>>>>investigations. Both the US State Department and Africa, Global Human
>>>>Rights & International Operations Subcommittee, found Falung Gong's
>>>>live organ harvesting claim not credible.
>>>
>>>Silly Charles. The "investigations" you claim clear China involve only
>>>the specific allegation of a concentration camp at Sujiatun. The report
>>>of David Kilgour concerns the broader issue of organ harvesting of live
>>>FLG throughout China.
>>
>>In order for live FLG members to be harvested of their organs, there
>>has to be a subgovernment inside PRC to do that. It is because the
>>court cannot send anyone to death for demonstrating or for being
>>suspected a member of the FLG movement. The State Security Bureau has
>>to step in for (1)killing the FLG members while they are in jail,
>>(2)harvesting their organs, (3)selling their organs, (4)collecting the
>>profit into the department, and keeping quiet from the central
>>government...
>>
>>Who runs this sub-government???
>>
>>FP
>
>
> The "sub-government" of which you speak is called the 610 Office and is
> run by Luo Gan:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/china_politic s/leadership/html/10.stm
>
> http://www.chinavitae.com/biography_display.php?id=27
>
---

Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net

Complaints to news [at] netfront.net

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222892 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 09:36

charles_liu

Please email Minister Obhrai and clearify the truth about Falun Gong
propaganda. Edits made in-place.

> (obhrai.d [at] parl.gc.ca)
>
> Subject: Mr. Kilgour's Falun Gong Report Ignoring Volumn Of Contrarian Fact Shows
> Lack Of Impartiality
>
> Dear Minister Obhrai:
>
> I would like to alert you on recent Falun Gong media activity in Canada, and would like to
> express my dissatisfaction with th lack of impartiality evident in Mr. Kilgour's one-sided investigation:
>
> 1) Mr. Kilgour can not divorce himself from the fact your investigation is
> sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently
> POLITICAL, as the vilification they heaped on the Chinese government,
> unrelated to this allegation, demonstrates - such as "The Nine
> Commentaries" and "10 million peple quit the CCP" political
> propaganda ahead of the Chinese leader's stateside visit.
>
> 2) The report failed to account for many contrarian facts that have
> brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available
> outside China. Not able to go to China does not absolve you of your
> duty to critically examine ALL evidence:
>
> * Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of
> March, independently found the allegation not credible;
>
> * Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao
> with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. FYI
> Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critically
> on Tiananmen Square Massacre.
>
> * Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu
> of Laogai Research Foundation;
>
> * Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which
> is a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;
>
> * Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and
> mis-representing autopsy photo that do not prove torture or
> vivisection. The fact the photo show autopsy being performed and murder
> investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposite.
>
> Clear Wisdom's original report on Wang Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(2005)
> had no mention of organ harvesting, yet years later these stories are
> rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ harvesting accusation.
>
> While China's human rights records should be examined, writing allegory
> of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be
> precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say
> seriousely?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> <signature>
>
> References:
>
> - US State Department investigation:
> http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-en glish&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.54 43231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
>
> - US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046- 7583,00.html
>
> - Malaysian government documenting minister visit to hospital accused
> by Falun Gong:
> http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Strok e%20TrialProtocol%20synopsis.pdf
>
> - Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:
> http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0 606/07chinese
>
> - HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:
> http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm
>
> - A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet,
> Epoch Times:
> http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-cont roversy.html
>
> - Year 2000 Clear Wisdom story on Wang Bin, with no mention of organ
> harvesting:
> http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #222944 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 18:41

dick_12345678

I guess the way that china develop the organ harvesting industry in the
following steps;

1=2E the legal system and a few hospitals found a way to make money

2=2E to make bigger profit the hospitals asked legal system to kill more

3=2E many hospitals follow up and the legal system can not supply enough
body, then they killed and reported latter, many people were killed
without legal procedure

4=2E need more and more. they killed and did not report.

I believe the next step is that they will kidnap people who do not have
relative in that place, such beggar etc.

=E7=95=B8=E8=91=A9(Dick) wrote:
> how can you assume that chinese people do NOT know this crime.
>
> I told you that most chinese heard something about that.
>
> how can you assume that police will stop this crime if he/she know it.
>
> how can you assume chinese government just kill the person sentenced by
> a court
>
> I told you that you can NOT understand CCP with common sense.
>
> the china society is NOT a normal society.
>
> I think the central government kill FLG not for profit but the legal
> system and hospitals found the way to earn money.("fei wu li yong" do
> you understand?)
>
> I believe that the central government will NOT stop killing FLG even
> when organ harvesting is prohibited.
>
>
>
> fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > If you think the PRC government has not investigated the matter, you
> > are a fool, unless the organ harvesting industry was launched by the
> > central government itself.
> >
> > In order to have enough FLG practitioners for organ harvesting, you
> > need:
> >
> > (1)enough individuals who claim to be FLG members going out into the
> > street to protest or demonstrate.
> > (2)since the court cannot hand out death sentences for demonstration,
> > the secret police has to step in for the arrest and execution as the
> > whole thing cannot pass through the legal system.
> > (3)various centres for organ harvesting are set up all over the country
> > to pick up dead bodies from the department of Securities Bureau..
> > (4)an army of specialists is transferred from state hospitals
> > nationwide.
> > (5)massive advertising effort is carried out to sell these organs to
> > both domestic and foreign buyers. But the lack of organ for transplant
> > in China contradicts this.
> > (6)all these centres have to have connection with hospital all over the
> > country and to do so without the knowledge of civil police.
> >
> > I am afraid that the profit from all the exercises above is a drop in
> > the bucket in comparison with the large amount of foreign exchange in
> > China. The central government has to be crazy enough to have done
> > something like that.
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
> >
> >
> > Micky Wong wrote:
> > > Micky Wong's Comment: Any legitimate government functioning in normal
> > > societies, when faced with allegations of such abhorring crimes, would
> > > actively start serious investigation to seek the truth. Sometimes,
> > > bipartisan or independent investigation committee will be formed to
> > > pursue and prosecute serious large scale crimes.
> > >
> > > Why Chinese embassy choose to respond with flat denial instead? The
> > > hidden message of such abnormal behavior is indeed not funny.
> > >
> > >
> > > Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report
> > >
> > > Updated Thu. Jul. 6 2006 11:36 PM ET
> > >
> > > CTV.ca News Staff
> > >
> > > The Chinese Embassy in Ottawa is dismissing a report by two prominent
> > > Canadian investigators that claims China has harvested the organs of
> > > Falun Gong prisoners.
> > >
> > > Former Liberal MP David Kilgour and international human rights lawyer
> > > David Matas volunteered for a two-month investigation into the alleged
> > > organ harvesting of Chinese prisoners, and on Thursday presented their
> > > 45-page long report on the illegal practice.
> > >
> > > "The allegations are true ... harvesting is indeed happening," Matas
> > > said during the press conference.
> > >
> > > The report, which assessed 18 categories of evidence, found that organ
> > > harvesting of Falun Gong members began in 2000 and continues to this =
day
> > > in different parts of China.
> > >
> > > "This is a form of evil we have yet to see on this planet," Matas sai=
d=2E
> > >
> > > But the Chinese Embassy called the report "groundless and biased,'' a=
nd
> > > described the allegations as a Falun Gong smear effort based on "rumo=
urs."
> > >
> > > Members of Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that is outlawed in China,
> > > claim thousands of their imprisoned practitioners have been victims of
> > > organ harvesting.
> > >
> > > "We can't give you an estimate as to the numbers, but in our report, =
we
> > > will indicate that about 40,000 organ transplants are not explained,"
> > > Kilgour told Canada AM Thursday.
> > >
> > > Kilgour and Matas conclude the majority of the organs came from Falun
> > > Gong prisoners, who didn't volunteer their organs.
> > >
> > > The report, which includes testimony from relatives of the surgeons,
> > > supports these charges.
> > >
> > > "The wife of one of the surgeons...said that what happens is he took =
the
> > > cornea and then other surgeons would take the heart, the liver and the
> > > kidneys and I think the pancreases as well," Kilgour said.
> > >
> > > According to the woman, her husband removed corneas out of approximat=
ely
> > > 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners all of whom would die as a result.
> > >
> > > Websites have even appeared soliciting foreigners who need transplant=
s,
> > > promising organs in a week or two.
> > >
> > > "That can't happen unless you have a bank of live people who are wait=
ing
> > > to die so that some other human being can have their kidney," he said.
> > >
> > > In addition to witness testimony, Kilgour and Matas also recorded
> > > conversations between some of the hospitals and prisons regarding
> > > requests for specific organs from Falun Gong prisoners.
> > >
> > > The pair arranged for Mandarin-speaking individuals to phone hospitals
> > > asking for Falun Gong organs.
> > >
> > > During the press conference, Kilgour read some of the phone transcrip=
ts:
> > >
> > > * Q: "How many Falun Gong suppliers under the age of 40 do you ha=
ve?
> > > * A: "Quite a few."
> > > * Q: "It (the organ) was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners?"
> > > * A: "Correct, we would choose the good ones because we ensure the
> > > quality in our operation."
> > > * Q: "You choose the organs yourself?"
> > > * A: "Correct."
> > >
> > > In 1999, China outlawed the practice of Falun Gong. At that time, the
> > > government estimated there were approximately 60 million followers.
> > >
> > > The report includes several recommendations, including the plea for
> > > Ottawa to stop training Chinese doctors in transplant technologies in
> > > Canada until there is proof that the practice has stopped.
> > >=20
> > > With a report from The Canadian Press

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #222947 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 19:03

dick_12345678

are you barking, CCP dog?

tell me why do you think CCP are not killing FLG.

CCP is also killing the babies who were born for a few minus!

I was a pig when I lived in China. But I am not living in the evil
China and not a pig now!

charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> Please email Minister Obhrai and clearify the truth about Falun Gong
> propaganda. Edits made in-place.
>
> > (obhrai.d [at] parl.gc.ca)
> >
> > Subject: Mr. Kilgour's Falun Gong Report Ignoring Volumn Of Contrarian Fact Shows
> > Lack Of Impartiality
> >
> > Dear Minister Obhrai:
> >
> > I would like to alert you on recent Falun Gong media activity in Canada, and would like to
> > express my dissatisfaction with th lack of impartiality evident in Mr. Kilgour's one-sided investigation:
> >
> > 1) Mr. Kilgour can not divorce himself from the fact your investigation is
> > sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently
> > POLITICAL, as the vilification they heaped on the Chinese government,
> > unrelated to this allegation, demonstrates - such as "The Nine
> > Commentaries" and "10 million peple quit the CCP" political
> > propaganda ahead of the Chinese leader's stateside visit.
> >
> > 2) The report failed to account for many contrarian facts that have
> > brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available
> > outside China. Not able to go to China does not absolve you of your
> > duty to critically examine ALL evidence:
> >
> > * Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of
> > March, independently found the allegation not credible;
> >
> > * Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao
> > with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. FYI
> > Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critically
> > on Tiananmen Square Massacre.
> >
> > * Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu
> > of Laogai Research Foundation;
> >
> > * Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which
> > is a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;
> >
> > * Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and
> > mis-representing autopsy photo that do not prove torture or
> > vivisection. The fact the photo show autopsy being performed and murder
> > investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposite.
> >
> > Clear Wisdom's original report on Wang Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(2005)
> > had no mention of organ harvesting, yet years later these stories are
> > rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ harvesting accusation.
> >
> > While China's human rights records should be examined, writing allegory
> > of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be
> > precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say
> > seriousely?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > <signature>
> >
> > References:
> >
> > - US State Department investigation:
> > http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-en glish&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.54 43231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
> >
> > - US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:
> > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046- 7583,00.html
> >
> > - Malaysian government documenting minister visit to hospital accused
> > by Falun Gong:
> > http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Strok e%20TrialProtocol%20synopsis.pdf
> >
> > - Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:
> > http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0 606/07chinese
> >
> > - HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:
> > http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm
> >
> > - A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet,
> > Epoch Times:
> > http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-cont roversy.html
> >
> > - Year 2000 Clear Wisdom story on Wang Bin, with no mention of organ
> > harvesting:
> > http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223004 ]

Di, 11 Juli 2006 08:32

charles_liu

=E7=95=B8=E8=91=A9(Dick) wrote:
> are you barking, CCP dog?
>
> tell me why do you think CCP are not killing FLG.
>
> CCP is also killing the babies who were born for a few minus!
>
> I was a pig when I lived in China. But I am not living in the evil
> China and not a pig now!

If you want to be rude like lurkydog there, go ahead. But don't expect
people to take your seriousely. Looks like you can take the pig out of
China, but not China out of the pig...

>
>
>
> charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> > Please email Minister Obhrai and clearify the truth about Falun Gong
> > propaganda. Edits made in-place.
> >
> > > (obhrai.d [at] parl.gc.ca)
> > >
> > > Subject: Mr. Kilgour's Falun Gong Report Ignoring Volumn Of Contraria=
n Fact Shows
> > > Lack Of Impartiality
> > >
> > > Dear Minister Obhrai:
> > >
> > > I would like to alert you on recent Falun Gong media activity in Cana=
da, and would like to
> > > express my dissatisfaction with th lack of impartiality evident in Mr=
.. Kilgour's one-sided investigation:
> > >
> > > 1) Mr. Kilgour can not divorce himself from the fact your investigati=
on is
> > > sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently
> > > POLITICAL, as the vilification they heaped on the Chinese government,
> > > unrelated to this allegation, demonstrates - such as "The Nine
> > > Commentaries" and "10 million peple quit the CCP" political
> > > propaganda ahead of the Chinese leader's stateside visit.
> > >
> > > 2) The report failed to account for many contrarian facts that have
> > > brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available
> > > outside China. Not able to go to China does not absolve you of your
> > > duty to critically examine ALL evidence:
> > >
> > > * Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of
> > > March, independently found the allegation not credible;
> > >
> > > * Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao
> > > with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. FYI
> > > Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critical=
ly
> > > on Tiananmen Square Massacre.
> > >
> > > * Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu
> > > of Laogai Research Foundation;
> > >
> > > * Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which
> > > is a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;
> > >
> > > * Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and
> > > mis-representing autopsy photo that do not prove torture or
> > > vivisection. The fact the photo show autopsy being performed and murd=
er
> > > investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposite.
> > >
> > > Clear Wisdom's original report on Wang Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(2005)
> > > had no mention of organ harvesting, yet years later these stories are
> > > rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ harvesting accusation.
> > >
> > > While China's human rights records should be examined, writing allego=
ry
> > > of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be
> > > precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say
> > > seriousely?
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > <signature>
> > >
> > > References:
> > >
> > > - US State Department investigation:
> > > http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=3Dwashfile- english&y=
=3D2006&m=3DApril&x=3D20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231 &t=3Dlivefeeds/wf-lates=
t=2Ehtml
> > >
> > > - US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:
> > > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046- 7583,00.h=
tml
> > >
> > > - Malaysian government documenting minister visit to hospital accused
> > > by Falun Gong:
> > > http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Strok e%20Trial=
Protocol%20synopsis.pdf
> > >
> > > - Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:
> > > http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0 606/07chi=
nese
> > >
> > > - HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:
> > > http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm
> > >
> > > - A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet,
> > > Epoch Times:
> > > http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-cont roversy.h=
tml
> > >
> > > - Year 2000 Clear Wisdom story on Wang Bin, with no mention of organ
> > > harvesting:
> > > http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straighton FLG [message #223018 ]

Di, 11 Juli 2006 11:14

lechergod

that shows how communists' dogs take themselves to be ostrich,
bury its head to show its arsehole.
where PRC is taken out, no more piqs, idiotic moron !!!!

charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:

> çžè©(Dick) wrote:
>
>>are you barking, CCP dog?
>>
>>tell me why do you think CCP are not killing FLG.
>>
>>CCP is also killing the babies who were born for a few minus!
>>
>>I was a pig when I lived in China. But I am not living in the evil
>>China and not a pig now!
>
>
> If you want to be rude like lurkydog there, go ahead. But don't expect
> people to take your seriousely. Looks like you can take the pig out of
> China, but not China out of the pig...
>
>
>>
>>
>>charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>>>Please email Minister Obhrai and clearify the truth about Falun Gong
>>>propaganda. Edits made in-place.
>>>
>>>
>>>>(obhrai.d [at] parl.gc.ca)
>>>>
>>>>Subject: Mr. Kilgour's Falun Gong Report Ignoring Volumn Of Contrarian Fact Shows
>>>>Lack Of Impartiality
>>>>
>>>>Dear Minister Obhrai:
>>>>
>>>>I would like to alert you on recent Falun Gong media activity in Canada, and would like to
>>>>express my dissatisfaction with th lack of impartiality evident in Mr. Kilgour's one-sided investigation:
>>>>
>>>>1) Mr. Kilgour can not divorce himself from the fact your investigation is
>>>>sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently
>>>>POLITICAL, as the vilification they heaped on the Chinese government,
>>>>unrelated to this allegation, demonstrates - such as "The Nine
>>>>Commentaries" and "10 million peple quit the CCP" political
>>>>propaganda ahead of the Chinese leader's stateside visit.
>>>>
>>>>2) The report failed to account for many contrarian facts that have
>>>>brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available
>>>>outside China. Not able to go to China does not absolve you of your
>>>>duty to critically examine ALL evidence:
>>>>
>>>>* Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of
>>>>March, independently found the allegation not credible;
>>>>
>>>>* Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao
>>>>with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. FYI
>>>>Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critically
>>>>on Tiananmen Square Massacre.
>>>>
>>>>* Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu
>>>>of Laogai Research Foundation;
>>>>
>>>>* Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which
>>>>is a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;
>>>>
>>>>* Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and
>>>>mis-representing autopsy photo that do not prove torture or
>>>>vivisection. The fact the photo show autopsy being performed and murder
>>>>investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposite.
>>>>
>>>>Clear Wisdom's original report on Wang Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(2005)
>>>>had no mention of organ harvesting, yet years later these stories are
>>>>rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ harvesting accusation.
>>>>
>>>>While China's human rights records should be examined, writing allegory
>>>>of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be
>>>>precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say
>>>>seriousely?
>>>>
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>><signature>
>>>>
>>>>References:
>>>>
>>>>- US State Department investigation:
>>>> http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-en glish&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.54 43231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
>>>>
>>>>- US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:
>>>> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046- 7583,00.html
>>>>
>>>>- Malaysian government documenting minister visit to hospital accused
>>>>by Falun Gong:
>>>> http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Strok e%20TrialProtocol%20synopsis.pdf
>>>>
>>>>- Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:
>>>> http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0 606/07chinese
>>>>
>>>>- HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:
>>>>http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm
>>>>
>>>>- A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet,
>>>>Epoch Times:
>>>> http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-cont roversy.html
>>>>
>>>>- Year 2000 Clear Wisdom story on Wang Bin, with no mention of organ
>>>>harvesting:
>>>>http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html
>
>

---

Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net

Complaints to news [at] netfront.net

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223038 ]

Di, 11 Juli 2006 17:15

dick_12345678

If you want to go back to evil china, go ahead.
your doom is my luck.
be careful of your "nui huang gou bao", CCP dog!

when you back to china, you are no longer a dog, but a pig. someday
CCP will tear you into pieces and put you on their lunch table.

do you think you have the opportunity to eat other people's meat and
drink their blood just because you bark for the CCP?
no way! the CCP will treat you as a meat too. and then you will become
the feces of CCP.
but at that time you can not bark again. you will stink for 10 thousand
years.

charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> =E7=95=B8=E8=91=A9(Dick) wrote:
> > are you barking, CCP dog?
> >
> > tell me why do you think CCP are not killing FLG.
> >
> > CCP is also killing the babies who were born for a few minus!
> >
> > I was a pig when I lived in China. But I am not living in the evil
> > China and not a pig now!
>
> If you want to be rude like lurkydog there, go ahead. But don't expect
> people to take your seriousely. Looks like you can take the pig out of
> China, but not China out of the pig...
>
> >
> >
> >
> > charles_liu [at] my-deja.com wrote:
> > > Please email Minister Obhrai and clearify the truth about Falun Gong
> > > propaganda. Edits made in-place.
> > >
> > > > (obhrai.d [at] parl.gc.ca)
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Mr. Kilgour's Falun Gong Report Ignoring Volumn Of Contrar=
ian Fact Shows
> > > > Lack Of Impartiality
> > > >
> > > > Dear Minister Obhrai:
> > > >
> > > > I would like to alert you on recent Falun Gong media activity in Ca=
nada, and would like to
> > > > express my dissatisfaction with th lack of impartiality evident in =
Mr. Kilgour's one-sided investigation:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Mr. Kilgour can not divorce himself from the fact your investiga=
tion is
> > > > sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently
> > > > POLITICAL, as the vilification they heaped on the Chinese governmen=
t,
> > > > unrelated to this allegation, demonstrates - such as "The Nine
> > > > Commentaries" and "10 million peple quit the CCP" political
> > > > propaganda ahead of the Chinese leader's stateside visit.
> > > >
> > > > 2) The report failed to account for many contrarian facts that have
> > > > brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available
> > > > outside China. Not able to go to China does not absolve you of your
> > > > duty to critically examine ALL evidence:
> > > >
> > > > * Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of
> > > > March, independently found the allegation not credible;
> > > >
> > > > * Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao
> > > > with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. =
FYI
> > > > Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critic=
ally
> > > > on Tiananmen Square Massacre.
> > > >
> > > > * Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu
> > > > of Laogai Research Foundation;
> > > >
> > > > * Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which
> > > > is a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;
> > > >
> > > > * Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and
> > > > mis-representing autopsy photo that do not prove torture or
> > > > vivisection. The fact the photo show autopsy being performed and mu=
rder
> > > > investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposite.
> > > >
> > > > Clear Wisdom's original report on Wang Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(200=
5)
> > > > had no mention of organ harvesting, yet years later these stories a=
re
> > > > rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ harvesting accusation.
> > > >
> > > > While China's human rights records should be examined, writing alle=
gory
> > > > of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be
> > > > precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say
> > > > seriousely?
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > <signature>
> > > >
> > > > References:
> > > >
> > > > - US State Department investigation:
> > > > http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=3Dwashfile- english=
&y=3D2006&m=3DApril&x=3D20060416141157uhyggep0.5 443231&t=3Dlivefeeds/wf-lat=
est.html
> > > >
> > > > - US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:
> > > > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046- 7583,00=
..html
> > > >
> > > > - Malaysian government documenting minister visit to hospital accus=
ed
> > > > by Falun Gong:
> > > > http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Strok e%20Tri=
alProtocol%20synopsis.pdf
> > > >
> > > > - Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:
> > > > http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0 606/07c=
hinese
> > > >
> > > > - HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:
> > > > http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm
> > > >
> > > > - A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet,
> > > > Epoch Times:
> > > > http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-cont roversy=
..html
> > > >
> > > > - Year 2000 Clear Wisdom story on Wang Bin, with no mention of organ
> > > > harvesting:
> > > > http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223219 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 01:44

fyfpoon

Re: Call To Action: Email David Kilgour and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223227 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 02:50

demorising

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223267 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 09:36

charles_liu

Re: CTV.ca: Chinese embassy denies organ harvesting report [message #223347 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 18:41

dick_12345678

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223348 ]

Mo, 10 Juli 2006 19:03

dick_12345678

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223459 ]

Di, 11 Juli 2006 08:32

charles_liu

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straighton FLG [message #223484 ]

Di, 11 Juli 2006 11:14

lechergod

Re: Call To Action: Email Minister Obhrai and set the facts straight on FLG [message #223550 ]

Di, 11 Juli 2006 17:15

dick_12345678

URGENT Call To Action: Email National Press Club and set the facts straight on FLG [message #226441 ]

Mi, 19 Juli 2006 04:14

charles_liu

Please email National Press Club and urge them to not give Falun Gong
propaganda a free pass, and ask the tough questions:

tglad [at] press.org
info [at] npcpress.org

Dear NPC:

I would like to bring to your attention on some facts surrounding
recent Falun Gong media activity in US Canada, and would like to urge
you to critically evaluate the veracity of Falun Gong's claim.

As you well know, recently a Canadian politicians have came forward to
endorse Falun Gong's allegation. Mr. David Kilgour is holding press
conference at the NPC on 7/20. I hope your will look into the
contrarian facts the Kilgour report have neglected.

The report failed to account for many contrarian facts that have
brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available
outside China. Not able to go to China does not absolve Mr. Kilgour of
his duty to critically examine ALL evidence:

* Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of
March, independently found the allegation not credible;

* Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao
with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. FYI
Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critically
on Tiananmen Square Massacre.

* Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu of
Laogai Research Foundation;

* Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which is
a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;

* Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and mis-representing
autopsy photo that do not prove torture or vivisection. The fact the
photo show autopsy being performed and murder investigation held by the
Chinese government proves the opposite is true.

Another Falun Gong publication, ClearWisdom's original report on Wang
Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(2005) had no mention of organ harvesting, yet
years later these stories are rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ
harvesting accusation.

While China's human rights records should be examined, writing allegory
of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be
precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say
seriousely?

Mr. Kilgour can not divorce from the fact his one-sided investigation
is sponsored by a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently
political.

Sincerely,

<signature>

References:

- US State Department investigation:
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-en glish&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.54 43231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html

- US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046- 7583,00.html

- Malaysian government documenting minister visit to hospital accused
by Falun Gong:
http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Strok e%20TrialProtocol%20synopsis.pdf

- Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0 606/07chinese

- HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:
http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm

- A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet,
Epoch Times:
http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-cont roversy.html

- Year 2000 ClearWisdom story on Wang Bin, with no mention of organ
harvesting:
http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html

- The financial connection between Falun Gong and Epoch Times, found in
the non-profit declarations (Form 990, Page 2, Part III c):

Southern USA Falun Dafa Association. $10,350 were given to Epoch Times
in 2002, $22,700 in 2003, $14,750 in 2004:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2002/760/692/2002-7606 92185-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2004/760/692/2003-7606 92185-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2004/760/692/2004-7606 92185-1-9.pdf

Falun Dafa Association of New England. $57,609 were spent on computer
and
print media, $97,755 in 2003, $116,823 in 2004:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2002/043/576/2002-0435 76893-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2003/043/576/2003-0435 76893-1-Z.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2004/043/576/2004-0435 76893-02038ba1-9.pdf

(These are but two examples of the hundreds of FLG non-profits in USA.
IMHO who pays for Epoch Times is not a secret.)

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