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Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!!
| War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223294] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 13:22 |
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Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223304 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 14:19 |
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On 10 Jul 2006 04:22:54 -0700, "HanKookJin" <bora_park_2004 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>
>The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
>East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
>sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
>at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
>compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
>aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
>honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
There is nothing Japan can do. Her threat is just a lot of hot air.
Rightwing Japanese politicians think making such announcements will
put her closer to the US and raise the nationalism spirit at home. All
it will do is to further isolate her from her Asian neighbors as if
she is not already isolated enough. US foreign policy is unravelling
and Japan will do well to distance herself from that until the
situation becomes clearer under another US president. As for
nationalism the ordinary Japanese knows well that NK isn't about to
make war on them or anyone else now or ever.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223309 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 14:45 |
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I agree with your comments, HanKook. These dispicable Japs are an
international disgrace. They should hang their head in shame at their
barbaric actions and arrogance. Fortunately, the Japanese Empire is fading
into significance as other regional powerspass Japan in importance and
relevance. It's about time we wiped our ass on the Hinomaru.
"HanKookJin" <bora_park_2004 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152530574.860213.158960 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>
> The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
> East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
> sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
> at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
> compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
> aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
> honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223314 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 14:49 |
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"HanKookJin" <bora_park_2004 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152530574.860213.158960 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>
> The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
> East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
> sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
> at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
> compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
> aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
> honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
>
....and NK's provocation may cause Japan to re-arm. That's something
vacillator China would not like very much.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223364 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 21:47 |
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"Oopla" <WoHochtDieBus [at] Bumsenbombers.de> wrote in message
news:X1ssg.188$Dp4.77 [at] fe09.lga...
>
> "HanKookJin" <bora_park_2004 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1152530574.860213.158960 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>>
>> The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
>> East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
>> sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
>> at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
>> compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
>> aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
>> honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
>>
>
> ...and NK's provocation may cause Japan to re-arm. That's something
> vacillator China would not like very much.
>
I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will Bush
go this time? Kim really has WMD.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223368 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 22:38 |
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On 10 Jul 2006 04:22:54 -0700, "HanKookJin" <bora_park_2004 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>
Won't happen. Any military action by Japan on the Asian mainland
under any pretext will be very strongly opposed by all Asians and,
very likely, the rest of the UN members who are not under Uncle Sam's
thumb. Japan is totally dependent on imported oil. Its easy to
choke off her oil supplies.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223372 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 22:33 |
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On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:16 -0400, "Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote:
[...]
>I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will Bush
>go this time? Kim really has WMD.
The key to NK is in China. If China pulls the plug, the Kim Dynasty
will collapse like a house of cards. If they prop Kim II up, he will
take any money Bush may be foolish enough to give him, and spit in
Bush's face again.
It is time for one-to-one negotiations, not between Bush and NK (a
waste of time, and invitation to extortion by other would-be nuclear
powers), but rather between Bush and China. Bush should be willing to
meet reasonable Chinese demands, eg (1) that the USA will guarantee
real money to deal with consequences of NK's collapse, and (2) that a
peaceable post-Kim Korea should be in China's sphere of influence. On
the other hand, China should be told that continued stalling, even in
the face of reasonable offers, will chill our mutually profitable
economic cooperation, and end China's monopoly as the only nuclear
power of northeast Asia.
The South Korean government has also been propping up Kim's regime.
If China comes around, however, they can easily be made to follow.
The agonizingly drawn-out endgame for North Korea is at least part
payback for the penny-wise-pound-foolish stinginess of Bush 41 and
Clinton toward post-Soviet Russia -- a shameful repudiation of the
USA's Marshall Plan heritage. Koreans (both North and South) fearful
of change repeatedly point to the agony of Yeltsin's 1990s "Reform"
period as something to avoid.
--Hugo S. Cunningham
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223374 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 23:08 |
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"Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote in message
news:79ysg.24495$We.651765 [at] wagner.videotron.net...
>
>
> I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will
> Bush go this time? Kim really has WMD.
>
One photo I saw was quite interesting. It was a photo of the Korean
peninsula taken from space at night. The southern end of the peninsula was
lit up with a million diamonds of light while what was obviously North Korea
was completely black.
At least Kim has solved the energy problem...just say no to electricity.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223391 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 00:45 |
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> > I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will
> > Bush go this time? Kim really has WMD.
Yeah. That makes about as much sense as Belize being "ready for a
full-scale war with the US".
The Toy Dictator might be a delusional saber-rattling moron, but he
apparently HAS grasped one important truth. Threaten America a la
Qadaffi, Hussein, Mullah Omar, etc. etc. and you do get the attention
of America and of the world for awhile. It won't last, of course--but
he does get at least a little attention, and gets to strut
about--briefly--on the world stage.
He is pretty much ignored at this time, merely because he just isn't
important enough yet to worry about. His worries will start when at
some day in the future he IS powerful enough to worry about.
Were I The Toy Dictator, I'd be praying that day never comes.
Liam
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223412 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 03:16 |
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In article <phc5b2tpbe7pe3e46jqru05fk58lhv9di6 [at] 4ax.com>,
Hugo S. Cunningham <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:16 -0400, "Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will Bush
>>go this time? Kim really has WMD.
>
>The key to NK is in China. If China pulls the plug, the Kim Dynasty
>will collapse like a house of cards. If they prop Kim II up, he will
>take any money Bush may be foolish enough to give him, and spit in
>Bush's face again.
>
>It is time for one-to-one negotiations, not between Bush and NK (a
>waste of time, and invitation to extortion by other would-be nuclear
>powers), but rather between Bush and China. Bush should be willing
>to meet reasonable Chinese demands, eg (1) that the USA will
>guarantee real money to deal with consequences of NK's collapse, and
>(2) that a peaceable post-Kim Korea should be in China's sphere of
>influence.
Money, money, money; ``real money'', as you say.
But even as the current Chinese government policy is money-centric to
a large extent which is possibly to its own detriment in the long run,
money always has a cost.
Japan is just running G.W. Bush's errand. Remember Bush wined and
dined Koizume just a week ago. Bush needs Koizume with its foreign
policy. And Koizume is a shallow, short-sighted kind of guy; kind of
like that yellow-hair guy who came every year to America to defend his
title as the biggest weenie-eater in the world?
Unlike the far-sighted emperor Meiji who took Japan out of the dark
age which afflicted all of eastern Asia for millennia, Koizume is
squandering the rich the Japanese people have worked hard to achieve
in the past century and half, by flaunting his worship of Japan's
imperialist-military past, by remilitarization Japan, and by running
the errands for Bush who runs the hegemonic policy of the neocons who
wrote a script for him called the Project for the New American Century
(PNAC). In the PNAC blueprint, one can see that China is the eventual
target for the US in its quest for sole dominance.
The Middel East is part of the PNAC. But oil is only part of it. And
making Israel a regional superpower is also only part of the equation.
Securing ``enduring'' strategic bases for aggressive military purposes
in central Asia is a key component to encircling China. Having bases
in India is also a part of it. And having Vietnam and Taiwan in the
southeast Asia and have Japan and Korea in the northeast as launchpads
are also essential to force a regime change in China eventually.
Bush would have loved to have conquered Iran, if not N. Korea by now.
Unfortunately, it is stuck in Iraq with a hollow conquest which is
bleeding the US 100 billions a year. And since the neocons is burning
to see a regime change in Iran ``now'', where does Bush or his Condi
get the resources to hold down the simmering eastern front until a
brighter day? And, by the way, where is the ``real money'' to payoff
poor China to ``reign in'' Kim Il Jung?
That's why Japan is doing all its theatrics right now, naturally on
behalf of Bush!
Even as Koizume is shallow, his government is not dumb. It knows that
N. Korea is not in a position to nor is about to attack Japan. And
Kim Il Jung is not a madman as the US propaganda machine has tried to
paint him. Remember the same machine was also calling Saddam the same
name when he was in our cross-hairs.
On the other hand, the neocon hegemonic ambition has spurred every
country in the world on to arm itself to teeth so as not to repeat
Iraq's mistake. Thus, one effect of the Bush presidency is nothing
but to get the whole world into a new arms race. This is why Koizumi
and others who support Bush and his war policy are short-sighted.
So, if China's leaders are likewise short-sighted in its inability to
see that there is more than money involved, then woe is to the Chinese
people who would suffer the fate of the Iraqis.
By contrast, every move that China and other countries in the world
make to slow down or stop Bush's terror war will make a lasting
contribution to world peace and security for all, including we in
America.
Needless to say, Americans who believe that N. Korea's missile testing
would endanger our security on our soil are just gullible, allowing
ourselves to be misled again just as we were misled about the
nonexistent WMD of Saddam's Iraq.
Let's remember that the so-called threat of N. Korea is very much an
artificial creation of US foreign policy. The Koreans, from the north
and south, long for a united Korea. But the US government wouldn't
let it happen, so much so that, despite repeated requests by the host,
the US has been stalling on letting the joint military command be
transferred to the south Koreans. So, more than 50 years after the
Korean War, the US still is calling the shots for the Koreans. So
sovereignty in South Korea, really?
lo yeeOn
========
U.S.-Korean Divide Over Pyongyang - Newsweek: International Edit..
The 'Sunshine Policy' is slowly driving a wedge between the United
States and South Korea.
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
Kim Jae-hwan / APF-Getty Images
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
By By Christian Caryl and B.J. Lee
Newsweek International
June 26, 2006 issue - Talk about open secrets. For weeks now, North
Korean technicians have been preparing a site for the launch of a
ballistic missile. In Washington, national-security adviser Stephen
Hadley warned Pyongyang that launching a missile would expose North
Korea to the unspecified wrath of the United States; in Tokyo, a
senior Japanese politician echoed the vague threat.
And what about South Korea? Most people there have completely ignored
the launch, opting instead to cheer their team through the World Cup.
Oh, yes, and then there was the celebration in Kwangju, where
delegates from the two Koreas gathered to celebrate the sixth
anniversary of a historic summit between their leaders that marked the
beginning of the "Sunshine Policy"-the South's program of proactive
support for its economically prostrate communist sibling. Meanwhile,
the South's radical university-student association, in a directive to
student councils, called for "escalation of the wave of anti-American
struggles."
Seoul and Washington used to share a common viewpoint on how to
approach Pyongyang: warily. But now that's more the way the two
military allies perceive each other, with Washington hewing to a
fairly tough line on North Korea and Seoul preferring a policy of
accommodation. Indeed, it's increasingly clear that Seoul's Sunshine
Policy is not just a fleeting improvisation, as it seemed when
launched by President Kim Dae Jung in 1998. Rather, it's the
expression of a whole set of deeper imperatives that are steadily
driving a wedge between the United States and South Korea. "The
Sunshine Policy changed the South, not the North," says Kim Jung Won
at Seoul's Sejong University. "The southerners are confused. They're
no longer sure who's their enemy and who's their friend."
Maybe that will become clearer later this month, when the architect of
the Sunshine Policy, former president Kim Dae Jung, heads to Pyongyang
for a much-heralded tjte-`-tjte with dictator Kim Jong Il. Optimists
hope that the meeting will jump-start the moribund Six-Party Talks,
the multilateral negotiating process aimed at persuading the North to
discard its presumed nuclear arsenal. But the major players in the
talks are being pulled apart by their increasingly divergent
interests-and without a breakthrough the increasingly threadbare
international consensus on the need to disarm North Korea could
unravel altogether.
Along the way, Seoul's military alliance with Washington may be
fraying. In March, the two countries started talks designed to prepare
the way for Seoul to take over control of joint U.S.-South Korean
military forces in the country. The commander of U.S. forces in Korea,
Gen. Burwell Bell, has been hinting that Washington won't stand in the
way, and South Korean President Roh Myoo Hun has indirectly confirmed
the shift by saying that Seoul will assume wartime command within the
next five years. Publicly, both American and South Korean officials
are saying that the change merely represents a long-overdue
"modernization" of the alliance. But experts say that, in reality,
transferring command to Seoul will mean the virtual dissolution of the
U.S.-South Korean Combined Forces.
===
On one level, the Sunshine Policy has worked. Hardly a week goes by
without some sort of Korean-Korean meeting involving bureaucrats,
generals or long-separated relatives touchingly reunited. Yet the
policy also has its shadow side. For while the Bush administration is
frustrated with the usual stonewalling and feinting from Pyongyang,
South Korea seems ever ready to give Kim Jong Il the benefit of the
doubt.
He's done little to earn such trust-much less the billions' worth of
aid bestowed on his country by Seoul. In recent years there have been
a cautious transformation in the North-chiefly a tentative program of
economic reform-but the Sunshine Policy has done little to effect
genuine change. Earlier this month Pyongyang announced, with the
flimsiest of explanations, that it was postponing the long-planned
opening of a rail link between North and South.
This spring media reports suggested that U.S. officials would be
willing to offer Kim Jong Il's government a formal peace treaty as an
incentive to get rid of its nuclear weapons. The North has issued two
invitations for the U.S. negotiator at the Six-Party Talks to come to
Pyongyang for discussions. But the Bush administration rebuffed the
idea, and one senior administration official, who requested anonymity
because of diplomatic sensitivities, stresses that Washington won't
talk about a peace treaty until the North returns to the Six-Party
talks. "The joint statement [in September] listed what [the North
Koreans] need to do and what they would get. Everyone agrees that the
statement is straightforward, and it's disturbing that they haven't
followed it," says the official.
Meanwhile, some South Koreans have broached the idea that Seoul could
sign its own truce with the North-something the South refused to do at
the end of the Korean War in 1953. A similar proposal might well be in
ex-president Kim's baggage as he journeys to Pyongyang-though
officials in Washington don't seem to know and are clearly not
thrilled about the idea. "This is something KDJ wants to do, but it's
not a channel we see as leading to a breakthrough in the talks," says
the Bush administration official.
The way the Sunshine Policy has been applied of late, it's hard to
imagine why the North Koreans would want to alter the status quo. On
May 9, President Roh promised that his government would henceforth
supply the North with aid "without conditions"-surprising observers
who had always assumed that the point of the talks was to offer
international economic aid to Pyongyang only if it eliminated its
nuclear weapons. South Korean officials insisted later that Roh's
remark was taken out of context.
Perhaps, but misunderstandings between the two capitals seem to be
occurring regularly. Washington was similarly spooked last year when
Roh started talking about South Korea's desire to play the role of an
impartial "balancer" between the region's powers-not what Washington
wants to hear from a potential wartime ally. More recently the two
countries have sparred over the notion of "strategic flexibility"-the
idea that U.S. forces in South Korea could be deployed in any outside
conflicts Washington deems necessary. "The South Koreans are anxious
about making a decision that could get them entangled in some future
U.S.-Chinese tensions over Taiwan," says Edward Olsen, a Korea expert
at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. "It's a
source of unease in Seoul. They're hedging their bets."
Not all of this can be blamed on naiveti in Seoul. South Korea's
growing economic dependence on China is an important dynamic. China is
now South Korea's biggest export market. "The economic trends are
driving the deepening dependence of the Koreans on China and
encouraging a certain sense of China as a potential protector," says
Kent Calder, a former State Department official who now teaches at
Johns Hopkins University. "The more that sense deepens, the less their
economic and political dependence on the United States." That's got to
give pause to policymakers in Washington who, when it comes to
relations with Seoul and Pyongyang these days, seem to be on the
outside looking in.
With Stephen Glain in Washington
) 2006 Newsweek, Inc.
>On the other hand, China should be told that continued stalling, even
>in the face of reasonable offers, will chill our mutually profitable
>economic cooperation, and end China's monopoly as the only nuclear
>power of northeast Asia.
>
>The South Korean government has also been propping up Kim's regime.
>If China comes around, however, they can easily be made to follow.
>
>The agonizingly drawn-out endgame for North Korea is at least part
>payback for the penny-wise-pound-foolish stinginess of Bush 41 and
>Clinton toward post-Soviet Russia -- a shameful repudiation of the
>USA's Marshall Plan heritage. Koreans (both North and South) fearful
>of change repeatedly point to the agony of Yeltsin's 1990s "Reform"
>period as something to avoid.
>
>--Hugo S. Cunningham
>
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223446 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 06:46 |
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Hahahahahaha
It's all because you launched missiles over Japan Sea. It's your fault.
We have nothing to do with it.
If you don't like to get counterattacked, then you should do something
about your king Kim and his maneuverer Y.H.Park.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
HanKookJin =E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8:
> Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>
> The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
> East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
> sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
> at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
> compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
> aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
> honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223447 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 06:50 |
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Anko,
you were msi-informed ,
it was not over Japan,
the missiles were over the Korea East Sea ,
dropping down near to the Rusian Sea coast .
Dr. bitter anko wrote:
> Hahahahahaha
>
> It's all because you launched missiles over Japan Sea. It's your fault.
> We have nothing to do with it.
>
> If you don't like to get counterattacked, then you should do something
> about your king Kim and his maneuverer Y.H.Park.
>
> Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
>
> HanKookJin =E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8:
>
> > Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
> >
> > The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
> > East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
> > sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
> > at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
> > compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
> > aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
> > honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223469 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 09:47 |
|
> The world cannot trust Imperial Japan.
Wrong time period there Sparky.
>
> She invaded China, Taiwan, South East Asia and colonized the Korean
> Peninsula and yet have never felt sorry for what she did.
"In the past, Japan, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused
tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries,
particularly to those of Asian nations," Mr Koizumi said. "Japan
squarely faces these facts of history in a spirit of humility. And with
feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology always engraved in mind,
Japan has resolutely maintained, consistently since the end of World
War II, that it will never turn into a military power."
>
> Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
> at this very moment.
Since they are dead I would imagine they have paid for their sins.
>
> Germany , on the other hand, apologised and compensated to Jewish victims
> while Japan refused to admit her was aggression during World War II.
So you want a money handout? Why should the current generation of
Japanese have to pay for what their forefathers did?
> How can such a country like Japan be honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
Because they are a different country?
>
> War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!!
Hahahahahahaha, what planet are you living on?
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| Appeasing Bush and alienating itself from NAM Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive str [message #223622 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 21:16 |
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It is a shameless act of Koizumi's government to appease Bush.
But it has the effect of alienating Japan from the other, less power,
countries, including those of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), which
Japan may not care very much about, as well as the South Koreans, who
should matter very much to Japan.
South Africa's deputy minister Pahad said his country was not in
favour of UN sanctions being imposed on North Korea, a position also
held by North Korea's closest ally, China.
"We want this matter to be resolved through normal diplomatic
consensus. We want to see a situation where all diplomatic efforts
have been exhausted before the situation is taken to the UN," Pahad
told reporters.
The South African official had met with his Japanese counterpart
Yasuhisa Shiozaki last week, who told Pahad that South Africa was
"well placed" to discuss the missile tests with Pyongyang.
. . .
Top Japanese spokesman Shinzo Abe on Monday suggested a possible
pre-emptive strike on North Korea, drawing more criticism on Tuesday.
"It is a serious development that Japanese cabinet ministers have made
a series of comments that justify a possible pre-emptive strike and
the use of military power against the Korean peninsula," said a
spokesman for South Korean President Roh Moo-Hyun.
South Korea in 2000 launched a "sunshine policy" of reconciling with
its longtime Northern adversary.
China has finally shown some progress in its judicial skills by
introducing a draft resolution to counter the hawkish Japanese one.
In the past, all China knew how to do was to ``abstain'' or say ``no''
at the UN. It is progress. Perhaps, it is now really a case of
if-Japan-could-do-it-what-does-it-mean-for-China-to-do-nothi ng kind of
deal.
It seems a lot of international prestige is on the line, e.g., China's
influence among the 116 members of the Non-Aligned Movement nations.
And North Korea is so close to home. (Even Mao's son died fighting in
Korea.)
Although the draft introduced is a diplomatic document, acquiring the
skills to write within a framework which serves a precise purpose but
which is also persuasive and which has intended legal implications,
means that China can finally embark on a journey to modernize its
internal legal system to do away such ghastly things as capital
punishment and harsh, counter-productive incarcerating criteria and
still make its large population co-exist as a just and harmonious
society. This is why I used the term judical skills above to describe
the skill to hammer together a diplomatic document at the UN.
Further comments are to follow Mr. Cunningham's statements below.
In article <phc5b2tpbe7pe3e46jqru05fk58lhv9di6 [at] 4ax.com>,
Hugo S. Cunningham <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:16 -0400, "Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will Bush
>>go this time? Kim really has WMD.
>
>The key to NK is in China. If China pulls the plug, the Kim Dynasty
>will collapse like a house of cards. If they prop Kim II up, he will
>take any money Bush may be foolish enough to give him, and spit in
>Bush's face again.
>
>It is time for one-to-one negotiations, not between Bush and NK (a
>waste of time, and invitation to extortion by other would-be nuclear
>powers), but rather between Bush and China. Bush should be willing
>to meet reasonable Chinese demands, eg (1) that the USA will
>guarantee real money to deal with consequences of NK's collapse, and
>(2) that a peaceable post-Kim Korea should be in China's sphere of
>influence.
Money, money, money; ``real money'', as you say. And influence . . .
But even as the current Chinese government policy is money-centric to
a large extent which is possibly to its own detriment in the long run,
money always has a cost.
Japan is just running G.W. Bush's errand. Remember Bush wined and
dined Koizume just a week ago. Bush needs Koizume with its foreign
policy. And Koizume is a shallow, short-sighted kind of guy; kind of
like that yellow-haired guy who came every year to America to defend
his title as the guy who can eat the most weenies!
Unlike the far-sighted emperor Meiji who took Japan out of the dark
ages which afflicted all of eastern Asia for millennia, Koizume is
squandering the riches the Japanese people have worked hard to achieve
in the past century and half, by flaunting his worship of Japan's
imperialist-military past, by remilitarizing Japan, and by running the
errands for Bush who runs the hegemonic policy of the neocons who
wrote a script for him called the Project for the New American Century
(PNAC). In the PNAC blueprint, one can see that China is the eventual
target for the US in its quest for sole dominance.
The Middle East is part of the PNAC. But oil is only part of it. And
making Israel a regional superpower is also only part of the equation.
Securing ``enduring'' strategic bases for aggressive military purposes
in central Asia is a key component to encircling China. Having bases
in India is also a part of it. And having Vietnam and Taiwan in
Southeast Asia and having Japan and Korea in the northeast as
launchpads are also essential to force a regime change in China
eventually.
Bush would have loved to have conquered Iran, if not N. Korea by now.
Unfortunately, it is stuck in Iraq with a hollow conquest which is
bleeding the US 100 billions a year. And since the neocons are burning
to see a regime change in Iran ``now'', where does Bush or his Condi
get the resources to hold down the simmering eastern front until a
brighter day? And, by the way, where is the ``real money'' to payoff
poor China to ``reign in'' Kim Jong-il?
That's why Japan is doing all its theatrics right now, naturally on
behalf of Bush!
Even as Koizume is shallow, his government is not dumb. It knows that
N. Korea is not in a position to nor is about to attack Japan. And
Kim Jong-il is not a madman as the US propaganda machine has tried to
paint him. Remember the same machine was also calling Saddam the same
name when he was in our cross-hairs.
On the other hand, the neocon hegemonic ambition has spurred every
country in the world on to arm itself to the teeth so as not to repeat
Iraq's mistake. Thus, one effect of the Bush presidency is nothing
but to get the whole world into a new arms race. This is why Koizumi
and others who support Bush and his war policy are short-sighted.
So, if China's leaders are likewise short-sighted in their inability
to see that there is more than money involved, then woe is to the
Chinese people who would suffer the fate of the Iraqis.
By contrast, every move that China and other countries in the world
make to slow down or stop Bush's terror war will make a lasting
contribution to world peace and security for all, including us in
America.
It is about survival! Not just N. Korea's survival, but China's own
survival eventually, that is at stake. It is not money, not ``real
money'', nor ``influence'' in some fantastic future time---a fantastic
post-N.Korea-collapse time.
A N. Korea collapse does not bode peace for China unless the PNAC is
radically renounced by the US government.
What happened to Germany in 1989 was the taking down of the Berlin
Wall which separated the Germans. Likewise, what Korea needs is the
removal of the US troops which have continued to separate the Koreans.
When that happens, N. Korea and S. Korea will then coalesce into one
unified Korea, which is not a collapsed N. Korea implies.
When a unified Korea comes, no influence from China, nor influence
from Japan, or the US will be welcome. Korea then will finally be
totally free and sovereign.
So, it makes no sense to entice China with some fantastic guarantee
of ``real money'' after the ``collapse'' of N. Korea.
Needless to say, Americans who believe that N. Korea's missile testing
would endanger our security on our soil are just gullible, allowing
ourselves to be misled again just as we were misled about the
nonexistent WMD of Saddam's Iraq.
And we should all know that N. Korea is not a puppet state of China
like Iraq is a puppet state of the US right now. All we have to do is
check up on N. Korea's history. (See, for example, the Wikipedia on
N. Korea.) It has held a policy of self-reliance and built a fairly
sophisticated defense industry. It is in general a bad policy not to
help out your geographical neighbors when they are in need. N. Korea
is a geographical neighbor of China. And it would be bad policy not
to help out N. Korea in China's good time. So, to think that China's
financial assistance to Korea is a plug that it can readily pull with
no bad ramification for itself, just in order to please Japan or Uncle
Sam, is pure fantastic thinking.
Let's remember that the so-called threat of N. Korea is very much an
artificial creation of US foreign policy. The Koreans, from the north
and south, have long been longing for a united Korea. But the US
government refuses to let it happen, so much so that, despite repeated
requests by the host, the US has been stalling on letting the joint
military command be transferred to the south Koreans. So, more than
50 years after the Korean War, the US still is calling the shots for
the Koreans. And this is respect for South Korea's sovereignty?
Really?
lo yeeOn
========
U.S.-Korean Divide Over Pyongyang - Newsweek: International Edit..
The 'Sunshine Policy' is slowly driving a wedge between the United
States and South Korea.
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
Kim Jae-hwan / APF-Getty Images
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
By By Christian Caryl and B.J. Lee
Newsweek International
June 26, 2006 issue - Talk about open secrets. For weeks now, North
Korean technicians have been preparing a site for the launch of a
ballistic missile. In Washington, national-security adviser Stephen
Hadley warned Pyongyang that launching a missile would expose North
Korea to the unspecified wrath of the United States; in Tokyo, a
senior Japanese politician echoed the vague threat.
And what about South Korea? Most people there have completely ignored
the launch, opting instead to cheer their team through the World Cup.
Oh, yes, and then there was the celebration in Kwangju, where
delegates from the two Koreas gathered to celebrate the sixth
anniversary of a historic summit between their leaders that marked the
beginning of the "Sunshine Policy"-the South's program of proactive
support for its economically prostrate communist sibling. Meanwhile,
the South's radical university-student association, in a directive to
student councils, called for "escalation of the wave of anti-American
struggles."
Seoul and Washington used to share a common viewpoint on how to
approach Pyongyang: warily. But now that's more the way the two
military allies perceive each other, with Washington hewing to a
fairly tough line on North Korea and Seoul preferring a policy of
accommodation. Indeed, it's increasingly clear that Seoul's Sunshine
Policy is not just a fleeting improvisation, as it seemed when
launched by President Kim Dae Jung in 1998. Rather, it's the
expression of a whole set of deeper imperatives that are steadily
driving a wedge between the United States and South Korea. "The
Sunshine Policy changed the South, not the North," says Kim Jung Won
at Seoul's Sejong University. "The southerners are confused. They're
no longer sure who's their enemy and who's their friend."
Maybe that will become clearer later this month, when the architect of
the Sunshine Policy, former president Kim Dae Jung, heads to Pyongyang
for a much-heralded tjte-`-tjte with dictator Kim Jong Il. Optimists
hope that the meeting will jump-start the moribund Six-Party Talks,
the multilateral negotiating process aimed at persuading the North to
discard its presumed nuclear arsenal. But the major players in the
talks are being pulled apart by their increasingly divergent
interests-and without a breakthrough the increasingly threadbare
international consensus on the need to disarm North Korea could
unravel altogether.
Along the way, Seoul's military alliance with Washington may be
fraying. In March, the two countries started talks designed to prepare
the way for Seoul to take over control of joint U.S.-South Korean
military forces in the country. The commander of U.S. forces in Korea,
Gen. Burwell Bell, has been hinting that Washington won't stand in the
way, and South Korean President Roh Myoo Hun has indirectly confirmed
the shift by saying that Seoul will assume wartime command within the
next five years. Publicly, both American and South Korean officials
are saying that the change merely represents a long-overdue
"modernization" of the alliance. But experts say that, in reality,
transferring command to Seoul will mean the virtual dissolution of the
U.S.-South Korean Combined Forces.
===
On one level, the Sunshine Policy has worked. Hardly a week goes by
without some sort of Korean-Korean meeting involving bureaucrats,
generals or long-separated relatives touchingly reunited. Yet the
policy also has its shadow side. For while the Bush administration is
frustrated with the usual stonewalling and feinting from Pyongyang,
South Korea seems ever ready to give Kim Jong Il the benefit of the
doubt.
He's done little to earn such trust-much less the billions' worth of
aid bestowed on his country by Seoul. In recent years there have been
a cautious transformation in the North-chiefly a tentative program of
economic reform-but the Sunshine Policy has done little to effect
genuine change. Earlier this month Pyongyang announced, with the
flimsiest of explanations, that it was postponing the long-planned
opening of a rail link between North and South.
This spring media reports suggested that U.S. officials would be
willing to offer Kim Jong Il's government a formal peace treaty as an
incentive to get rid of its nuclear weapons. The North has issued two
invitations for the U.S. negotiator at the Six-Party Talks to come to
Pyongyang for discussions. But the Bush administration rebuffed the
idea, and one senior administration official, who requested anonymity
because of diplomatic sensitivities, stresses that Washington won't
talk about a peace treaty until the North returns to the Six-Party
talks. "The joint statement [in September] listed what [the North
Koreans] need to do and what they would get. Everyone agrees that the
statement is straightforward, and it's disturbing that they haven't
followed it," says the official.
Meanwhile, some South Koreans have broached the idea that Seoul could
sign its own truce with the North-something the South refused to do at
the end of the Korean War in 1953. A similar proposal might well be in
ex-president Kim's baggage as he journeys to Pyongyang-though
officials in Washington don't seem to know and are clearly not
thrilled about the idea. "This is something KDJ wants to do, but it's
not a channel we see as leading to a breakthrough in the talks," says
the Bush administration official.
The way the Sunshine Policy has been applied of late, it's hard to
imagine why the North Koreans would want to alter the status quo. On
May 9, President Roh promised that his government would henceforth
supply the North with aid "without conditions"-surprising observers
who had always assumed that the point of the talks was to offer
international economic aid to Pyongyang only if it eliminated its
nuclear weapons. South Korean officials insisted later that Roh's
remark was taken out of context.
Perhaps, but misunderstandings between the two capitals seem to be
occurring regularly. Washington was similarly spooked last year when
Roh started talking about South Korea's desire to play the role of an
impartial "balancer" between the region's powers-not what Washington
wants to hear from a potential wartime ally. More recently the two
countries have sparred over the notion of "strategic flexibility"-the
idea that U.S. forces in South Korea could be deployed in any outside
conflicts Washington deems necessary. "The South Koreans are anxious
about making a decision that could get them entangled in some future
U.S.-Chinese tensions over Taiwan," says Edward Olsen, a Korea expert
at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. "It's a
source of unease in Seoul. They're hedging their bets."
Not all of this can be blamed on naiveti in Seoul. South Korea's
growing economic dependence on China is an important dynamic. China is
now South Korea's biggest export market. "The economic trends are
driving the deepening dependence of the Koreans on China and
encouraging a certain sense of China as a potential protector," says
Kent Calder, a former State Department official who now teaches at
Johns Hopkins University. "The more that sense deepens, the less their
economic and political dependence on the United States." That's got to
give pause to policymakers in Washington who, when it comes to
relations with Seoul and Pyongyang these days, seem to be on the
outside looking in.
With Stephen Glain in Washington
) 2006 Newsweek, Inc.
>On the other hand, China should be told that continued stalling, even
>in the face of reasonable offers, will chill our mutually profitable
>economic cooperation, and end China's monopoly as the only nuclear
>power of northeast Asia.
>
>The South Korean government has also been propping up Kim's regime.
>If China comes around, however, they can easily be made to follow.
>
>The agonizingly drawn-out endgame for North Korea is at least part
>payback for the penny-wise-pound-foolish stinginess of Bush 41 and
>Clinton toward post-Soviet Russia -- a shameful repudiation of the
>USA's Marshall Plan heritage. Koreans (both North and South) fearful
>of change repeatedly point to the agony of Yeltsin's 1990s "Reform"
>period as something to avoid.
>
>--Hugo S. Cunningham
>
|
|
|
| Appeasing Bush and alienating itself from NAM Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive str [message #223624 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 21:27 |
|
It is a shameless act of Koizumi's government to appease Bush.
But it has the effect of alienating Japan from the other, less power,
countries, including those of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), which
Japan may not care very much about, as well as the South Koreans, who
should matter very much to Japan.
South Africa's deputy minister Pahad said his country was not in
favour of UN sanctions being imposed on North Korea, a position also
held by North Korea's closest ally, China.
"We want this matter to be resolved through normal diplomatic
consensus. We want to see a situation where all diplomatic efforts
have been exhausted before the situation is taken to the UN," Pahad
told reporters.
The South African official had met with his Japanese counterpart
Yasuhisa Shiozaki last week, who told Pahad that South Africa was
"well placed" to discuss the missile tests with Pyongyang.
. . .
Top Japanese spokesman Shinzo Abe on Monday suggested a possible
pre-emptive strike on North Korea, drawing more criticism on Tuesday.
"It is a serious development that Japanese cabinet ministers have made
a series of comments that justify a possible pre-emptive strike and
the use of military power against the Korean peninsula," said a
spokesman for South Korean President Roh Moo-Hyun.
South Korea in 2000 launched a "sunshine policy" of reconciling with
its longtime Northern adversary.
China has finally shown some progress in its judicial skills by
introducing a draft resolution to counter the hawkish Japanese one.
In the past, all China knew how to do was to ``abstain'' or say ``no''
at the UN. It is progress. Perhaps, it is now really a case of
if-Japan-can-do-it-what-does-it-mean-for-China-to-do-nothing kind of
deal.
It seems a lot of international prestige is on the line, e.g., China's
influence among the 116 members of the Non-Aligned Movement nations.
And North Korea is so close to home. (Even Mao's son died fighting in
Korea.)
Although the draft introduced is a diplomatic document, acquiring the
skills to write within a framework which serves a precise purpose but
which is also persuasive and which has intended legal implications,
means that China can finally embark on a journey to modernize its
internal legal system to do away such ghastly things as capital
punishment and harsh, counter-productive incarcerating criteria and
still make its large population co-exist as a just and harmonious
society. This is why I used the term judical skills above to describe
the skill to hammer together a diplomatic document at the UN.
Further comments are to follow Mr. Cunningham's statements below.
In article <phc5b2tpbe7pe3e46jqru05fk58lhv9di6 [at] 4ax.com>,
Hugo S. Cunningham <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:16 -0400, "Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the
>>US. Will Bush go this time? Kim really has WMD.
>
>The key to NK is in China. If China pulls the plug, the Kim Dynasty
>will collapse like a house of cards. If they prop Kim II up, he will
>take any money Bush may be foolish enough to give him, and spit in
>Bush's face again.
>
>It is time for one-to-one negotiations, not between Bush and NK (a
>waste of time, and invitation to extortion by other would-be nuclear
>powers), but rather between Bush and China. Bush should be willing
>to meet reasonable Chinese demands, eg (1) that the USA will
>guarantee real money to deal with consequences of NK's collapse, and
>(2) that a peaceable post-Kim Korea should be in China's sphere of
>influence.
Money, money, money; ``real money'', as you say. And influence . . .
But even as the current Chinese government policy is money-centric to
a large extent which is possibly to its own detriment in the long run,
money always has a cost.
Japan is just running G.W. Bush's errand. Remember Bush wined and
dined Koizume just a week ago. Bush needs Koizume with its foreign
policy. And Koizume is a shallow, short-sighted kind of guy; kind of
like that yellow-haired guy who came every year to America to defend
his title as the guy who can eat the most weenies!
Unlike the far-sighted emperor Meiji who took Japan out of the dark
ages which afflicted all of eastern Asia for millennia, Koizume is
squandering the riches the Japanese people have worked hard to achieve
in the past century and half, by flaunting his worship of Japan's
imperialist-military past, by remilitarizing Japan, and by running the
errands for Bush who runs the hegemonic policy of the neocons who
wrote a script for him called the Project for the New American Century
(PNAC). In the PNAC blueprint, one can see that China is the eventual
target for the US in its quest for sole dominance.
The Middle East is part of the PNAC. But oil is only part of it. And
making Israel a regional superpower is also only part of the equation.
Securing ``enduring'' strategic bases for aggressive military purposes
in central Asia is a key component to encircling China. Having bases
in India is also a part of it. And having Vietnam and Taiwan in
Southeast Asia and having Japan and Korea in the northeast as
launchpads are also essential to force a regime change in China
eventually.
Bush would have loved to have conquered Iran, if not N. Korea by now.
Unfortunately, it is stuck in Iraq with a hollow conquest which is
bleeding the US 100 billions a year. And since the neocons are burning
to see a regime change in Iran ``now'', where does Bush or his Condi
get the resources to hold down the simmering eastern front until a
brighter day? And, by the way, where is the ``real money'' to payoff
poor China to ``reign in'' Kim Jong-il?
That's why Japan is doing all its theatrics right now, naturally on
behalf of Bush!
Even as Koizume is shallow, his government is not dumb. It knows that
N. Korea is not in a position to nor is about to attack Japan. And
Kim Jong-il is not a madman as the US propaganda machine has tried to
paint him. Remember the same machine was also calling Saddam the same
name when he was in our cross-hairs.
On the other hand, the neocon hegemonic ambition has spurred every
country in the world on to arm itself to the teeth so as not to repeat
Iraq's mistake. Thus, one effect of the Bush presidency is nothing
but to get the whole world into a new arms race. This is why Koizumi
and others who support Bush and his war policy are short-sighted.
So, if China's leaders are likewise short-sighted in their inability
to see that there is more than money involved, then woe is to the
Chinese people who would suffer the fate of the Iraqis.
By contrast, every move that China and other countries in the world
make to slow down or stop Bush's terror war will make a lasting
contribution to world peace and security for all, including us in
America.
It is about survival! Not just N. Korea's survival, but China's own
survival eventually, that is at stake. It is not money, not ``real
money'', nor ``influence'' in some fantastic future time---a fantastic
post-N.Korea-collapse time.
A N. Korea collapse does not bode peace for China unless the PNAC is
radically renounced by the US government.
What happened to Germany in 1989 was the taking down of the Berlin
Wall which separated the Germans. Likewise, what Korea needs is the
removal of the US troops which have continued to separate the Koreans.
When that happens, N. Korea and S. Korea will then coalesce into one
unified Korea, which is not a collapsed N. Korea implies.
When a unified Korea comes, no influence from China, nor influence
from Japan, or the US will be welcome. Korea then will finally be
totally free and sovereign.
So, it makes no sense to entice China with some fantastic guarantee
of ``real money'' after the ``collapse'' of N. Korea.
Needless to say, Americans who believe that N. Korea's missile testing
would endanger our security on our soil are just gullible, allowing
ourselves to be misled again just as we were misled about the
nonexistent WMD of Saddam's Iraq.
And we should all know that N. Korea is not a puppet state of China
like Iraq is a puppet state of the US right now. All we have to do is
check up on N. Korea's history. (See, for example, the Wikipedia on
N. Korea.) It has held a policy of self-reliance and built a fairly
sophisticated defense industry. It is in general a bad policy not to
help out your geographical neighbors when they are in need. N. Korea
is a geographical neighbor of China. And it would be bad policy not
to help out N. Korea in China's good time. So, to think that China's
financial assistance to Korea is a plug that it can readily pull with
no bad ramification for itself, just in order to please Japan or Uncle
Sam, is pure fantastic thinking.
Let's remember that the so-called threat of N. Korea is very much an
artificial creation of US foreign policy. The Koreans, from the north
and south, have long been longing for a united Korea. But the US
government refuses to let it happen, so much so that, despite repeated
requests by the host, the US has been stalling on letting the joint
military command be transferred to the south Koreans. So, more than
50 years after the Korean War, the US still is calling the shots for
the Koreans. And this is respect for South Korea's sovereignty?
Really?
lo yeeOn
========
U.S.-Korean Divide Over Pyongyang - Newsweek: International Edit..
The 'Sunshine Policy' is slowly driving a wedge between the United
States and South Korea.
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
Kim Jae-hwan / APF-Getty Images
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
By By Christian Caryl and B.J. Lee
Newsweek International
June 26, 2006 issue - Talk about open secrets. For weeks now, North
Korean technicians have been preparing a site for the launch of a
ballistic missile. In Washington, national-security adviser Stephen
Hadley warned Pyongyang that launching a missile would expose North
Korea to the unspecified wrath of the United States; in Tokyo, a
senior Japanese politician echoed the vague threat.
And what about South Korea? Most people there have completely ignored
the launch, opting instead to cheer their team through the World Cup.
Oh, yes, and then there was the celebration in Kwangju, where
delegates from the two Koreas gathered to celebrate the sixth
anniversary of a historic summit between their leaders that marked the
beginning of the "Sunshine Policy"-the South's program of proactive
support for its economically prostrate communist sibling. Meanwhile,
the South's radical university-student association, in a directive to
student councils, called for "escalation of the wave of anti-American
struggles."
Seoul and Washington used to share a common viewpoint on how to
approach Pyongyang: warily. But now that's more the way the two
military allies perceive each other, with Washington hewing to a
fairly tough line on North Korea and Seoul preferring a policy of
accommodation. Indeed, it's increasingly clear that Seoul's Sunshine
Policy is not just a fleeting improvisation, as it seemed when
launched by President Kim Dae Jung in 1998. Rather, it's the
expression of a whole set of deeper imperatives that are steadily
driving a wedge between the United States and South Korea. "The
Sunshine Policy changed the South, not the North," says Kim Jung Won
at Seoul's Sejong University. "The southerners are confused. They're
no longer sure who's their enemy and who's their friend."
Maybe that will become clearer later this month, when the architect of
the Sunshine Policy, former president Kim Dae Jung, heads to Pyongyang
for a much-heralded tjte-`-tjte with dictator Kim Jong Il. Optimists
hope that the meeting will jump-start the moribund Six-Party Talks,
the multilateral negotiating process aimed at persuading the North to
discard its presumed nuclear arsenal. But the major players in the
talks are being pulled apart by their increasingly divergent
interests-and without a breakthrough the increasingly threadbare
international consensus on the need to disarm North Korea could
unravel altogether.
Along the way, Seoul's military alliance with Washington may be
fraying. In March, the two countries started talks designed to prepare
the way for Seoul to take over control of joint U.S.-South Korean
military forces in the country. The commander of U.S. forces in Korea,
Gen. Burwell Bell, has been hinting that Washington won't stand in the
way, and South Korean President Roh Myoo Hun has indirectly confirmed
the shift by saying that Seoul will assume wartime command within the
next five years. Publicly, both American and South Korean officials
are saying that the change merely represents a long-overdue
"modernization" of the alliance. But experts say that, in reality,
transferring command to Seoul will mean the virtual dissolution of the
U.S.-South Korean Combined Forces.
===
On one level, the Sunshine Policy has worked. Hardly a week goes by
without some sort of Korean-Korean meeting involving bureaucrats,
generals or long-separated relatives touchingly reunited. Yet the
policy also has its shadow side. For while the Bush administration is
frustrated with the usual stonewalling and feinting from Pyongyang,
South Korea seems ever ready to give Kim Jong Il the benefit of the
doubt.
He's done little to earn such trust-much less the billions' worth of
aid bestowed on his country by Seoul. In recent years there have been
a cautious transformation in the North-chiefly a tentative program of
economic reform-but the Sunshine Policy has done little to effect
genuine change. Earlier this month Pyongyang announced, with the
flimsiest of explanations, that it was postponing the long-planned
opening of a rail link between North and South.
This spring media reports suggested that U.S. officials would be
willing to offer Kim Jong Il's government a formal peace treaty as an
incentive to get rid of its nuclear weapons. The North has issued two
invitations for the U.S. negotiator at the Six-Party Talks to come to
Pyongyang for discussions. But the Bush administration rebuffed the
idea, and one senior administration official, who requested anonymity
because of diplomatic sensitivities, stresses that Washington won't
talk about a peace treaty until the North returns to the Six-Party
talks. "The joint statement [in September] listed what [the North
Koreans] need to do and what they would get. Everyone agrees that the
statement is straightforward, and it's disturbing that they haven't
followed it," says the official.
Meanwhile, some South Koreans have broached the idea that Seoul could
sign its own truce with the North-something the South refused to do at
the end of the Korean War in 1953. A similar proposal might well be in
ex-president Kim's baggage as he journeys to Pyongyang-though
officials in Washington don't seem to know and are clearly not
thrilled about the idea. "This is something KDJ wants to do, but it's
not a channel we see as leading to a breakthrough in the talks," says
the Bush administration official.
The way the Sunshine Policy has been applied of late, it's hard to
imagine why the North Koreans would want to alter the status quo. On
May 9, President Roh promised that his government would henceforth
supply the North with aid "without conditions"-surprising observers
who had always assumed that the point of the talks was to offer
international economic aid to Pyongyang only if it eliminated its
nuclear weapons. South Korean officials insisted later that Roh's
remark was taken out of context.
Perhaps, but misunderstandings between the two capitals seem to be
occurring regularly. Washington was similarly spooked last year when
Roh started talking about South Korea's desire to play the role of an
impartial "balancer" between the region's powers-not what Washington
wants to hear from a potential wartime ally. More recently the two
countries have sparred over the notion of "strategic flexibility"-the
idea that U.S. forces in South Korea could be deployed in any outside
conflicts Washington deems necessary. "The South Koreans are anxious
about making a decision that could get them entangled in some future
U.S.-Chinese tensions over Taiwan," says Edward Olsen, a Korea expert
at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. "It's a
source of unease in Seoul. They're hedging their bets."
Not all of this can be blamed on naiveti in Seoul. South Korea's
growing economic dependence on China is an important dynamic. China is
now South Korea's biggest export market. "The economic trends are
driving the deepening dependence of the Koreans on China and
encouraging a certain sense of China as a potential protector," says
Kent Calder, a former State Department official who now teaches at
Johns Hopkins University. "The more that sense deepens, the less their
economic and political dependence on the United States." That's got to
give pause to policymakers in Washington who, when it comes to
relations with Seoul and Pyongyang these days, seem to be on the
outside looking in.
With Stephen Glain in Washington
) 2006 Newsweek, Inc.
>On the other hand, China should be told that continued stalling, even
>in the face of reasonable offers, will chill our mutually profitable
>economic cooperation, and end China's monopoly as the only nuclear
>power of northeast Asia.
>
>The South Korean government has also been propping up Kim's regime.
>If China comes around, however, they can easily be made to follow.
>
>The agonizingly drawn-out endgame for North Korea is at least part
>payback for the penny-wise-pound-foolish stinginess of Bush 41 and
>Clinton toward post-Soviet Russia -- a shameful repudiation of the
>USA's Marshall Plan heritage. Koreans (both North and South) fearful
>of change repeatedly point to the agony of Yeltsin's 1990s "Reform"
>period as something to avoid.
>
>--Hugo S. Cunningham
>
|
|
|
| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223693 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 06:01 |
|
i say let russia, china , and japan deal with them. the usa is already
hemoraging cash enough.
"Hugo S. Cunningham" <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote in message
news:phc5b2tpbe7pe3e46jqru05fk58lhv9di6 [at] 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:16 -0400, "Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will
>>Bush
>>go this time? Kim really has WMD.
>
> The key to NK is in China. If China pulls the plug, the Kim Dynasty
> will collapse like a house of cards. If they prop Kim II up, he will
> take any money Bush may be foolish enough to give him, and spit in
> Bush's face again.
>
> It is time for one-to-one negotiations, not between Bush and NK (a
> waste of time, and invitation to extortion by other would-be nuclear
> powers), but rather between Bush and China. Bush should be willing to
> meet reasonable Chinese demands, eg (1) that the USA will guarantee
> real money to deal with consequences of NK's collapse, and (2) that a
> peaceable post-Kim Korea should be in China's sphere of influence. On
> the other hand, China should be told that continued stalling, even in
> the face of reasonable offers, will chill our mutually profitable
> economic cooperation, and end China's monopoly as the only nuclear
> power of northeast Asia.
>
> The South Korean government has also been propping up Kim's regime.
> If China comes around, however, they can easily be made to follow.
>
> The agonizingly drawn-out endgame for North Korea is at least part
> payback for the penny-wise-pound-foolish stinginess of Bush 41 and
> Clinton toward post-Soviet Russia -- a shameful repudiation of the
> USA's Marshall Plan heritage. Koreans (both North and South) fearful
> of change repeatedly point to the agony of Yeltsin's 1990s "Reform"
> period as something to avoid.
>
> --Hugo S. Cunningham
>
|
|
|
| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223700 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 06:17 |
|
captain. wrote:
> i say let russia, china , and japan deal with them. the usa is already
> hemoraging cash enough.
Hemoraging blood also, in Iraq.
>
>
> "Hugo S. Cunningham" <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote in message
> news:phc5b2tpbe7pe3e46jqru05fk58lhv9di6 [at] 4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:16 -0400, "Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >>I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the US. Will
> >>Bush
> >>go this time? Kim really has WMD.
> >
> > The key to NK is in China. If China pulls the plug, the Kim Dynasty
> > will collapse like a house of cards. If they prop Kim II up, he will
> > take any money Bush may be foolish enough to give him, and spit in
> > Bush's face again.
> >
> > It is time for one-to-one negotiations, not between Bush and NK (a
> > waste of time, and invitation to extortion by other would-be nuclear
> > powers), but rather between Bush and China. Bush should be willing to
> > meet reasonable Chinese demands, eg (1) that the USA will guarantee
> > real money to deal with consequences of NK's collapse, and (2) that a
> > peaceable post-Kim Korea should be in China's sphere of influence. On
> > the other hand, China should be told that continued stalling, even in
> > the face of reasonable offers, will chill our mutually profitable
> > economic cooperation, and end China's monopoly as the only nuclear
> > power of northeast Asia.
> >
> > The South Korean government has also been propping up Kim's regime.
> > If China comes around, however, they can easily be made to follow.
> >
> > The agonizingly drawn-out endgame for North Korea is at least part
> > payback for the penny-wise-pound-foolish stinginess of Bush 41 and
> > Clinton toward post-Soviet Russia -- a shameful repudiation of the
> > USA's Marshall Plan heritage. Koreans (both North and South) fearful
> > of change repeatedly point to the agony of Yeltsin's 1990s "Reform"
> > period as something to avoid.
> >
> > --Hugo S. Cunningham
> >
|
|
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| Appeasing Bush and alienating itself from NAM Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive str [message #223715 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 09:37 |
|
It is a shameless act of Koizumi's government to appease Bush.
But it has the effect of alienating Japan from the other, less
powerful, countries, including those of the Non-Aligned Movement
(NAM), which Japan may not care very much about, as well as the South
Koreans, who should matter very much to Japan.
South Africa's deputy minister Pahad said his country was not in
favour of UN sanctions being imposed on North Korea, a position also
held by North Korea's closest ally, China.
"We want this matter to be resolved through normal diplomatic
consensus. We want to see a situation where all diplomatic efforts
have been exhausted before the situation is taken to the UN," Pahad
told reporters.
The South African official had met with his Japanese counterpart
Yasuhisa Shiozaki last week, who told Pahad that South Africa was
"well placed" to discuss the missile tests with Pyongyang.
. . .
Top Japanese spokesman Shinzo Abe on Monday suggested a possible
pre-emptive strike on North Korea, drawing more criticism on Tuesday.
"It is a serious development that Japanese cabinet ministers have made
a series of comments that justify a possible pre-emptive strike and
the use of military power against the Korean peninsula," said a
spokesman for South Korean President Roh Moo-Hyun.
South Korea in 2000 launched a "sunshine policy" of reconciling with
its longtime Northern adversary.
China has finally shown some progress in its judicial skills by
introducing a draft resolution to counter the hawkish Japanese one.
In the past, all China knew how to do was to ``abstain'' or say ``no''
at the UN. It is progress. Perhaps, it is now really a case of
if-Japan-can-do-it-what-does-it-mean-for-China-to-do-nothing kind of
deal.
It seems a lot of international prestige is on the line, e.g., China's
influence among the 116 members of the Non-Aligned Movement nations.
And North Korea is so close to home. (Even Mao's son died fighting in
Korea.)
Although the draft introduced is a diplomatic document, acquiring the
skills to write within a framework which serves a precise purpose but
which is also persuasive and which has intended legal implications,
means that China can finally embark on a journey to modernize its
internal legal system to do away such ghastly things as capital
punishment and harsh, counter-productive incarcerating criteria and
still make its large population co-exist as a just and harmonious
society. This is why I used the term judical skills above to describe
the skill to hammer together a diplomatic document at the UN.
Further comments are to follow Mr. Cunningham's statements below.
In article <phc5b2tpbe7pe3e46jqru05fk58lhv9di6 [at] 4ax.com>,
Hugo S. Cunningham <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:47:16 -0400, "Kvebekski" <Use [at] me.ca> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>I heard that Kim told he's ready for a full-scale war with the
>>US. Will Bush go this time? Kim really has WMD.
>
>The key to NK is in China. If China pulls the plug, the Kim Dynasty
>will collapse like a house of cards. If they prop Kim II up, he will
>take any money Bush may be foolish enough to give him, and spit in
>Bush's face again.
>
>It is time for one-to-one negotiations, not between Bush and NK (a
>waste of time, and invitation to extortion by other would-be nuclear
>powers), but rather between Bush and China. Bush should be willing
>to meet reasonable Chinese demands, eg (1) that the USA will
>guarantee real money to deal with consequences of NK's collapse, and
>(2) that a peaceable post-Kim Korea should be in China's sphere of
>influence.
Money, money, money; ``real money'', as you say. And influence . . .
But even as the current Chinese government policy is money-centric to
a large extent which is possibly to its own detriment in the long run,
money always has a cost.
Japan is just running G.W. Bush's errand. Remember Bush wined and
dined Koizumi just a week ago. Bush needs Koizumi for his foreign
policy. And Koizumi is a shallow, short-sighted kind of guy; kind of
like that yellow-haired guy who came every year to America to defend
his title as the guy who can eat the most weenies!
Unlike the far-sighted emperor Meiji who took Japan out of the dark
ages which afflicted all of eastern Asia for millennia, Koizumi is
squandering the riches the Japanese people have worked hard to achieve
in the past century and half, by flaunting his worship of Japan's
imperialist-military past, by remilitarizing Japan, and by running the
errands for Bush who runs the hegemonic policy of the neocons who
wrote a script for him called the Project for the New American Century
(PNAC). In the PNAC blueprint, one can see that China is the eventual
target for the US in its quest for sole dominance.
The Middle East is part of the PNAC. But oil is only part of it. And
making Israel a regional superpower is also only part of the equation.
Securing ``enduring'' strategic bases for aggressive military purposes
in central Asia is a key component to encircling China. Having bases
in India is also a part of it. And having Vietnam and Taiwan in
Southeast Asia and having Japan and Korea in the northeast as
launchpads are also essential to force a regime change in China
eventually.
Bush would have loved to have conquered Iran, if not N. Korea by now.
Unfortunately, he is stuck in Iraq with a hollow conquest which is
bleeding the US 100 billions a year. And since the neocons are burning
to see a regime change in Iran ``now'', where does Bush or his Condi
get the resources to hold down the simmering eastern front until a
brighter day? And, by the way, where is the ``real money'' to payoff
poor China to ``reign in'' Kim Jong-il?
That's why Japan is doing all its theatrics right now, naturally on
behalf of Bush!
Even as Koizumi is shallow, his government is not dumb. It knows that
N. Korea is not in a position to nor is about to attack Japan. And
Kim Jong-il is not a madman as the US propaganda machine has tried to
paint him. Remember the same machine was also calling Saddam the same
name when he was in our cross-hairs.
On the other hand, the neocon hegemonic ambition has spurred every
country in the world on to arm itself to the teeth so as not to repeat
Iraq's mistake. Thus, one effect of the Bush presidency is nothing
but to get the whole world into a new arms race. This is why Koizumi
and others who support Bush and his war policy are short-sighted.
So, if China's leaders are likewise short-sighted in their inability
to see that there is more than money involved, then woe is to the
Chinese people who would suffer the fate of the Iraqis.
By contrast, every move that China and other countries in the world
make to slow down or stop Bush's terror war will make a lasting
contribution to world peace and security for all, including us in
America.
It is about survival! Not just N. Korea's survival, but China's own
survival eventually, that is at stake. It is not money, not ``real
money'', nor ``influence'' in some fantastic future time---a fantastic
post-N.Korea-collapse time.
A N. Korea collapse does not bode peace for China unless the PNAC is
radically renounced by the US government.
What happened to Germany in 1989 was the taking down of the Berlin
Wall which separated the Germans. Likewise, what Korea needs is the
removal of the US troops which have continued to separate the Koreans.
When that happens, N. Korea and S. Korea will then coalesce into one
unified Korea, which is not what a collapsed N. Korea implies.
When a unified Korea comes, no influence from China, nor influence
from Japan, or the US will be welcome. Korea then will finally be
totally free and sovereign.
So, it makes no sense to entice China with some fantastic guarantee
of ``real money'' after the ``collapse'' of N. Korea.
Needless to say, Americans who believe that N. Korea's missile testing
would endanger our security on our soil are just gullible, allowing
ourselves to be misled again just as we were misled about the
nonexistent WMD of Saddam's Iraq.
And we should all know that N. Korea is not a puppet state of China
like Iraq is a puppet state of the US right now. All we have to do is
check up on N. Korea's history. (See, for example, the Wikipedia on
N. Korea.) It has held a policy of self-reliance and built a fairly
sophisticated defense industry. It is in general a bad policy not to
help out your geographical neighbors when they are in need. N. Korea
is a geographical neighbor of China. And it would be bad policy not
to help out N. Korea in China's good time. So, to think that China's
financial assistance to Korea is a plug that it can readily pull with
no bad ramification for itself, just in order to please Japan or Uncle
Sam, is pure fantastic thinking.
Let's remember that the so-called threat of N. Korea is very much an
artificial creation of US foreign policy. The Koreans, from the north
and south, have long been longing for a united Korea. But the US
government refuses to let it happen, so much so that, despite repeated
requests by the host, the US has been stalling on letting the joint
military command be transferred to the south Koreans. So, more than
50 years after the Korean War, the US still is calling the shots for
the Koreans. And this is respect for South Korea's sovereignty?
Really?
lo yeeOn
========
U.S.-Korean Divide Over Pyongyang - Newsweek: International Edit..
The 'Sunshine Policy' is slowly driving a wedge between the United
States and South Korea.
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
Kim Jae-hwan / APF-Getty Images
Command Shift: U.S. Marines take part in a military training exercise
in South Korea
By By Christian Caryl and B.J. Lee
Newsweek International
June 26, 2006 issue - Talk about open secrets. For weeks now, North
Korean technicians have been preparing a site for the launch of a
ballistic missile. In Washington, national-security adviser Stephen
Hadley warned Pyongyang that launching a missile would expose North
Korea to the unspecified wrath of the United States; in Tokyo, a
senior Japanese politician echoed the vague threat.
And what about South Korea? Most people there have completely ignored
the launch, opting instead to cheer their team through the World Cup.
Oh, yes, and then there was the celebration in Kwangju, where
delegates from the two Koreas gathered to celebrate the sixth
anniversary of a historic summit between their leaders that marked the
beginning of the "Sunshine Policy"-the South's program of proactive
support for its economically prostrate communist sibling. Meanwhile,
the South's radical university-student association, in a directive to
student councils, called for "escalation of the wave of anti-American
struggles."
Seoul and Washington used to share a common viewpoint on how to
approach Pyongyang: warily. But now that's more the way the two
military allies perceive each other, with Washington hewing to a
fairly tough line on North Korea and Seoul preferring a policy of
accommodation. Indeed, it's increasingly clear that Seoul's Sunshine
Policy is not just a fleeting improvisation, as it seemed when
launched by President Kim Dae Jung in 1998. Rather, it's the
expression of a whole set of deeper imperatives that are steadily
driving a wedge between the United States and South Korea. "The
Sunshine Policy changed the South, not the North," says Kim Jung Won
at Seoul's Sejong University. "The southerners are confused. They're
no longer sure who's their enemy and who's their friend."
Maybe that will become clearer later this month, when the architect of
the Sunshine Policy, former president Kim Dae Jung, heads to Pyongyang
for a much-heralded tjte-`-tjte with dictator Kim Jong Il. Optimists
hope that the meeting will jump-start the moribund Six-Party Talks,
the multilateral negotiating process aimed at persuading the North to
discard its presumed nuclear arsenal. But the major players in the
talks are being pulled apart by their increasingly divergent
interests-and without a breakthrough the increasingly threadbare
international consensus on the need to disarm North Korea could
unravel altogether.
Along the way, Seoul's military alliance with Washington may be
fraying. In March, the two countries started talks designed to prepare
the way for Seoul to take over control of joint U.S.-South Korean
military forces in the country. The commander of U.S. forces in Korea,
Gen. Burwell Bell, has been hinting that Washington won't stand in the
way, and South Korean President Roh Myoo Hun has indirectly confirmed
the shift by saying that Seoul will assume wartime command within the
next five years. Publicly, both American and South Korean officials
are saying that the change merely represents a long-overdue
"modernization" of the alliance. But experts say that, in reality,
transferring command to Seoul will mean the virtual dissolution of the
U.S.-South Korean Combined Forces.
===
On one level, the Sunshine Policy has worked. Hardly a week goes by
without some sort of Korean-Korean meeting involving bureaucrats,
generals or long-separated relatives touchingly reunited. Yet the
policy also has its shadow side. For while the Bush administration is
frustrated with the usual stonewalling and feinting from Pyongyang,
South Korea seems ever ready to give Kim Jong Il the benefit of the
doubt.
He's done little to earn such trust-much less the billions' worth of
aid bestowed on his country by Seoul. In recent years there have been
a cautious transformation in the North-chiefly a tentative program of
economic reform-but the Sunshine Policy has done little to effect
genuine change. Earlier this month Pyongyang announced, with the
flimsiest of explanations, that it was postponing the long-planned
opening of a rail link between North and South.
This spring media reports suggested that U.S. officials would be
willing to offer Kim Jong Il's government a formal peace treaty as an
incentive to get rid of its nuclear weapons. The North has issued two
invitations for the U.S. negotiator at the Six-Party Talks to come to
Pyongyang for discussions. But the Bush administration rebuffed the
idea, and one senior administration official, who requested anonymity
because of diplomatic sensitivities, stresses that Washington won't
talk about a peace treaty until the North returns to the Six-Party
talks. "The joint statement [in September] listed what [the North
Koreans] need to do and what they would get. Everyone agrees that the
statement is straightforward, and it's disturbing that they haven't
followed it," says the official.
Meanwhile, some South Koreans have broached the idea that Seoul could
sign its own truce with the North-something the South refused to do at
the end of the Korean War in 1953. A similar proposal might well be in
ex-president Kim's baggage as he journeys to Pyongyang-though
officials in Washington don't seem to know and are clearly not
thrilled about the idea. "This is something KDJ wants to do, but it's
not a channel we see as leading to a breakthrough in the talks," says
the Bush administration official.
The way the Sunshine Policy has been applied of late, it's hard to
imagine why the North Koreans would want to alter the status quo. On
May 9, President Roh promised that his government would henceforth
supply the North with aid "without conditions"-surprising observers
who had always assumed that the point of the talks was to offer
international economic aid to Pyongyang only if it eliminated its
nuclear weapons. South Korean officials insisted later that Roh's
remark was taken out of context.
Perhaps, but misunderstandings between the two capitals seem to be
occurring regularly. Washington was similarly spooked last year when
Roh started talking about South Korea's desire to play the role of an
impartial "balancer" between the region's powers-not what Washington
wants to hear from a potential wartime ally. More recently the two
countries have sparred over the notion of "strategic flexibility"-the
idea that U.S. forces in South Korea could be deployed in any outside
conflicts Washington deems necessary. "The South Koreans are anxious
about making a decision that could get them entangled in some future
U.S.-Chinese tensions over Taiwan," says Edward Olsen, a Korea expert
at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. "It's a
source of unease in Seoul. They're hedging their bets."
Not all of this can be blamed on naiveti in Seoul. South Korea's
growing economic dependence on China is an important dynamic. China is
now South Korea's biggest export market. "The economic trends are
driving the deepening dependence of the Koreans on China and
encouraging a certain sense of China as a potential protector," says
Kent Calder, a former State Department official who now teaches at
Johns Hopkins University. "The more that sense deepens, the less their
economic and political dependence on the United States." That's got to
give pause to policymakers in Washington who, when it comes to
relations with Seoul and Pyongyang these days, seem to be on the
outside looking in.
With Stephen Glain in Washington
) 2006 Newsweek, Inc.
>On the other hand, China should be told that continued stalling, even
>in the face of reasonable offers, will chill our mutually profitable
>economic cooperation, and end China's monopoly as the only nuclear
>power of northeast Asia.
>
>The South Korean government has also been propping up Kim's regime.
>If China comes around, however, they can easily be made to follow.
>
>The agonizingly drawn-out endgame for North Korea is at least part
>payback for the penny-wise-pound-foolish stinginess of Bush 41 and
>Clinton toward post-Soviet Russia -- a shameful repudiation of the
>USA's Marshall Plan heritage. Koreans (both North and South) fearful
>of change repeatedly point to the agony of Yeltsin's 1990s "Reform"
>period as something to avoid.
>
>--Hugo S. Cunningham
>
|
|
|
| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223750 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 12:10 |
|
"captain." <spammersmustdie [at] now.net> wrote in message
news:Vu_sg.109172$A8.63634 [at] clgrps12...
>i say let russia, china , and japan deal with them. the usa is already
>hemoraging cash enough.
>
>
Russia and China don't want to deal with them. Russia wants to run oil
pipelines through there and China just wants to keep the neighbor quiet.
The longer China props up Kimmie, the worse off the Korean people will be.
Right now, it's one big concentration camp. It's China's Auschwitz.
|
|
|
| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223783 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 18:01 |
|
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 06:10:27 -0400, "Mohammed Silverstein"
<LittleMuchacho [at] TimeTraveler.au> wrote:
[...]
>The longer China props up Kimmie, the worse off the Korean people will be.
>Right now, it's one big concentration camp. It's China's Auschwitz.
Or, closer to home, China's latest "Democratic Kampuchea." (China was
the principal ally and protector of the Khmer Rouge regime during the
Cambodian holocaust of 1975-78.)
But this is a great opportunity for China to emerge on the world stage
as a savior (assuming they receive prior guarantees from Bush & Co.
against a double-cross) -- ending the nightmare of their Korean
neighbors. China's friendship would be perceived as much more
valuable, if it benefitted a country's people more than bloody
tyrants.
--Hugo S. Cunningham
|
|
|
| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223790 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 18:37 |
|
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:01:04 -0400, Hugo S. Cunningham
<checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote:
>Or, closer to home, China's latest "Democratic Kampuchea." (China was
>the principal ally and protector of the Khmer Rouge regime during the
>Cambodian holocaust of 1975-78.)
>
>But this is a great opportunity for China to emerge on the world stage
>as a savior (assuming they receive prior guarantees from Bush & Co.
>against a double-cross) -- ending the nightmare of their Korean
>neighbors. China's friendship would be perceived as much more
>valuable, if it benefitted a country's people more than bloody
>tyrants.
>
>--Hugo S. Cunningham
You raise a very good point that had been at the back of my mind
since the Vietnam War. This is my theory. I haven't come across it in
any publication or discussion group. But it does seem a pretty good
theory in view of the events and the results up to today.
China supported those unsavory regimes, very unlikely on the premise
that it would be preferable to have a native regime, however odious,
in place rather than let, by inaction, a foreign power (US) go in and
occupy that country. This blocking policy applied to every party as
China did go against Vietnam when she invaded Kampuchea. The
principle will be, in a small Indo-China country an unsavory native
regime, cannot keep up the genocide or other horrible practices for
long . Even they need peace in order to consolidate their power, to
feed themselves and to build up their strength. On the other hand
the occupation by a foreign power such as the US can last for decades.
That occupation would be used as for a base to regime change
neighboring countries. Those countries are right on China's
doorsteps.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #223792 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 18:37 |
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ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> The principle [of China] will be, in a small Indo-China country an unsavory native
> regime, cannot keep up the genocide or other horrible practices for
> long .
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224060 ] |
Mi, 12 Juli 2006 21:27 |
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On 12 Jul 2006 10:59:26 -0700, demorising [at] aol.com wrote:
>> The principle [of China] will be, in a small Indo-China country an unsavory native
>> regime, cannot keep up the genocide or other horrible practices for
>> long .
Ah. Our good friend demorising has brought our attention to the
abomiable injustice in our world. Its a very noble and laudable
virtue to feel outrage and show his (and our) disgust and anger at
such sins. For the moment we can leave the problems of China and
Indo-China aside because no one is getting by killed there by state
goons, none that have made the headlines anyway. There are far more
dire situations in a place called Iraq and in Afghanistan. The poor
natives are being bombed, molested, tortured, starved, raped and
murdered by the dozen on a daily basis. See it on CNN. Read it in
your newpaper headlines. Demorising, being the passionate person he
is over the injustices in this world, will lead a campaign to save
those poor oppressed souls. He will lead a campaing to kill all the
oppressors and rid them off the land. He will regime change that
evil dubya so that he will never oppress the helpless again. Let us
all give demorising our support. I will certainly give him a personal
sendoff when he makes the trip. Blessed is the man who acts on his
words.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224140 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 04:28 |
|
"Hugo S. Cunningham" <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote in message
news:qh6ab2t29gv4e8493ulieq65te86beik0l [at] 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 06:10:27 -0400, "Mohammed Silverstein"
> <LittleMuchacho [at] TimeTraveler.au> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>The longer China props up Kimmie, the worse off the Korean people will be.
>>Right now, it's one big concentration camp. It's China's Auschwitz.
>
> Or, closer to home, China's latest "Democratic Kampuchea." (China was
> the principal ally and protector of the Khmer Rouge regime during the
> Cambodian holocaust of 1975-78.)
>
> But this is a great opportunity for China to emerge on the world stage
> as a savior (assuming they receive prior guarantees from Bush & Co.
> against a double-cross) -- ending the nightmare of their Korean
> neighbors. China's friendship would be perceived as much more
> valuable, if it benefitted a country's people more than bloody
> tyrants.
>
> --Hugo S. Cunningham
>
>
China is afraid of NK exploding after its implosion.
Basically all China wants is the status quo...keep it quiet.
They are not much of a world power if they are afraid ok Kimmie.
The whole thing is a big mess...China and Russia are just being jerks and
the SK's won't commit to anything either...at least not punitive sanctions.
So half want action and half want a meaningless UN statement....not even a
meaningless UN resolution.
>
>
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224168 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 09:06 |
|
Komin =E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8:
> Anko,
>
> you were msi-informed ,
> it was not over Japan,
> the missiles were over the Korea East Sea ,
> dropping down near to the Rusian Sea coast .
But they already launched the Taepodong missile 1 which cruised over
the Japanese islands a few years ago.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224778 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 11:25 |
|
North Korea is not China ' s Auschwitz .
North Korea is a result of the Soviet Power .
Mohammed Silverstein wrote:
> "captain." <spammersmustdie [at] now.net> wrote in message
> news:Vu_sg.109172$A8.63634 [at] clgrps12...
> >i say let russia, china , and japan deal with them. the usa is already
> >hemoraging cash enough.
> >
> >
>
> Russia and China don't want to deal with them. Russia wants to run oil
> pipelines through there and China just wants to keep the neighbor quiet.
>
> The longer China props up Kimmie, the worse off the Korean people will be.
> Right now, it's one big concentration camp. It's China's Auschwitz.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224779 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 11:28 |
|
Hugo,
China should not help the USA.,
China should maintain the statu quo on north Korea .
China should keep North Korea as it is ,
so that North Korea will give the US more problems .
Hugo S. Cunningham wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 06:10:27 -0400, "Mohammed Silverstein"
> <LittleMuchacho [at] TimeTraveler.au> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >The longer China props up Kimmie, the worse off the Korean people will be.
> >Right now, it's one big concentration camp. It's China's Auschwitz.
>
> Or, closer to home, China's latest "Democratic Kampuchea." (China was
> the principal ally and protector of the Khmer Rouge regime during the
> Cambodian holocaust of 1975-78.)
>
> But this is a great opportunity for China to emerge on the world stage
> as a savior (assuming they receive prior guarantees from Bush & Co.
> against a double-cross) -- ending the nightmare of their Korean
> neighbors. China's friendship would be perceived as much more
> valuable, if it benefitted a country's people more than bloody
> tyrants.
>
> --Hugo S. Cunningham
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224781 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 11:29 |
|
Kaz anko ,
yes that was a few years ago,
but not now ,
now it is different .
kaz762 [at] hotmail.com wrote:
> Komin =E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8:
>
> > Anko,
> >
> > you were msi-informed ,
> > it was not over Japan,
> > the missiles were over the Korea East Sea ,
> > dropping down near to the Rusian Sea coast .
>
> But they already launched the Taepodong missile 1 which cruised over
> the Japanese islands a few years ago.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224782 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 11:36 |
|
"Mohammed Silverstein" <LittleMuchacho [at] TimeTraveler.au> wrote in message
news:9eitg.131$yn3.101 [at] fe08.lga...
>
> "Hugo S. Cunningham" <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote in message
> news:qh6ab2t29gv4e8493ulieq65te86beik0l [at] 4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 06:10:27 -0400, "Mohammed Silverstein"
>> <LittleMuchacho [at] TimeTraveler.au> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>The longer China props up Kimmie, the worse off the Korean people will
>>>be.
>>>Right now, it's one big concentration camp. It's China's Auschwitz.
>>
>> Or, closer to home, China's latest "Democratic Kampuchea." (China was
>> the principal ally and protector of the Khmer Rouge regime during the
>> Cambodian holocaust of 1975-78.)
>>
>> But this is a great opportunity for China to emerge on the world stage
>> as a savior (assuming they receive prior guarantees from Bush & Co.
>> against a double-cross) -- ending the nightmare of their Korean
>> neighbors. China's friendship would be perceived as much more
>> valuable, if it benefitted a country's people more than bloody
>> tyrants.
>>
>> --Hugo S. Cunningham
>>
>>
>
> China is afraid of NK exploding after its implosion.
> Basically all China wants is the status quo...keep it quiet.
>
> They are not much of a world power if they are afraid ok Kimmie.
>
> The whole thing is a big mess...China and Russia are just being jerks and
> the SK's won't commit to anything either...at least not punitive
> sanctions.
> So half want action and half want a meaningless UN statement....not even a
> meaningless UN resolution.
>
and how about japan? they weren't too happy about the missles being tested.
i think china felt they came a touch close to china's border as well.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224796 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 12:22 |
|
"captain." <spammersmustdie [at] now.net> wrote in message
news:quotg.110404$A8.25150 [at] clgrps12...
>
> "Mohammed Silverstein" <LittleMuchacho [at] TimeTraveler.au> wrote in message
> news:9eitg.131$yn3.101 [at] fe08.lga...
>>
>> "Hugo S. Cunningham" <checkwebsite [at] cyberussr.com> wrote in message
>> news:qh6ab2t29gv4e8493ulieq65te86beik0l [at] 4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 06:10:27 -0400, "Mohammed Silverstein"
>>> <LittleMuchacho [at] TimeTraveler.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>The longer China props up Kimmie, the worse off the Korean people will
>>>>be.
>>>>Right now, it's one big concentration camp. It's China's Auschwitz.
>>>
>>> Or, closer to home, China's latest "Democratic Kampuchea." (China was
>>> the principal ally and protector of the Khmer Rouge regime during the
>>> Cambodian holocaust of 1975-78.)
>>>
>>> But this is a great opportunity for China to emerge on the world stage
>>> as a savior (assuming they receive prior guarantees from Bush & Co.
>>> against a double-cross) -- ending the nightmare of their Korean
>>> neighbors. China's friendship would be perceived as much more
>>> valuable, if it benefitted a country's people more than bloody
>>> tyrants.
>>>
>>> --Hugo S. Cunningham
>>>
>>>
>>
>> China is afraid of NK exploding after its implosion.
>> Basically all China wants is the status quo...keep it quiet.
>>
>> They are not much of a world power if they are afraid ok Kimmie.
>>
>> The whole thing is a big mess...China and Russia are just being jerks and
>> the SK's won't commit to anything either...at least not punitive
>> sanctions.
>> So half want action and half want a meaningless UN statement....not even
>> a meaningless UN resolution.
>>
>
> and how about japan? they weren't too happy about the missles being
> tested. i think china felt they came a touch close to china's border as
> well.
>
>
Japan and the US seem to be on the same page this time around.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #224825 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 15:07 |
|
Komin =E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8:
> North Korea is not China ' s Auschwitz .
>
> North Korea is a result of the Soviet Power .
Actually, It's the result of the socialist and the White supremacist F.
Roosevelt and Truman that urged the USSR to invade Manchuria, the
Korean peninsula, Karafuto and Chishima islands.
Those Socialist White supremacists of the Democrats have succeeded to
destroy the yellow Asian power, the yellow peril by creating N. Korea
to threaten Japan.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea!!! [message #224881 ] |
Do, 13 Juli 2006 17:57 |
|
Komin wrote:
> Hugo,
>
> China should not help the USA.,
> China should maintain the statu quo on north Korea .
>
> China should keep North Korea as it is ,
> so that North Korea will give the US more problems .
>
Why can't everybody, including China and Russia, just
leave North Korea COMPLETELY alone. Put it in Coventry.
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #225002 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 03:02 |
|
Rostyslav ,
soldiers need to fukke ,
it is in their nature .
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
> Komin wrote:
>
> > Hugo,
> >
> > China should not help the USA.,
> > China should maintain the statu quo on north Korea .
> >
> > China should keep North Korea as it is ,
> > so that North Korea will give the US more problems .
> >
> Why can't everybody, including China and Russia, just
> leave North Korea COMPLETELY alone. Put it in Coventry.
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| It's all fault of Koreans. Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #225213 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 21:06 |
|
Colonization of Korea, annexation of Korea, whatever, it's all your
fault. Japanese have nothing to do with it. It's all because of you
Koreans are so incapable savages. Japan needed to keep the Korean
peninsula in Japanese side to protect Japan itself from the invasion of
the communist power of USSR. Otherwise, Korean peninsula was invaded by
the communist power and they launch missiles to Japan just like Kim is
doing now.
Again, it's none of our fault. It's all because you Koreans are so
incapable morons that can't even secure their own peninsula from the
invasion of Soviet's communist power.
HanKookJin =E3=81=AE=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8:
> Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>
> The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
> East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
> sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
> at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
> compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
> aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
> honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
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| Re: It's all fault of Koreans. Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !! [message #225228 ] |
Fr, 14 Juli 2006 22:47 |
|
In article <1152903960.116760.8070 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, kaz762
[at] hotmail.com says...
> Colonization of Korea, annexation of Korea, whatever, it's all your
> fault. Japanese have nothing to do with it.
>
Wow! This is another KAZ CLASSIC! Japan had "nothing to do with" its
annexation of Korea! Imagine that!
BWAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAA!
Verno
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| Re: It's all fault of Koreans. Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !! [message #225269 ] |
Sa, 15 Juli 2006 03:04 |
|
Japanese helped the Industrialisation of korea .
Vernon North wrote:
> In article <1152903960.116760.8070 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, kaz762
> [at] hotmail.com says...
> > Colonization of Korea, annexation of Korea, whatever, it's all your
> > fault. Japanese have nothing to do with it.
> >
> Wow! This is another KAZ CLASSIC! Japan had "nothing to do with" its
> annexation of Korea! Imagine that!
>
> BWAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAA!
>
> Verno
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #225606 ] |
So, 16 Juli 2006 19:20 |
|
If you are so emphatic about Japanese immoral behavior, why don't you use
HanKookIn for your name instead of HankookJin which is a Japanese way of
pronunciation.
"HanKookJin" <bora_park_2004 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152530574.860213.158960 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Japan mulling action over N.Korea missiles
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missi les
>
> The world cannot trust Imperial Japan. She invaded China, Taiwan, South
> East Asia and colonized the Korean Peninsula and yet have never felt
> sorry for what she did. Japanese still worship war dead at their Shrine
> at this very moment. Germany , on the other hand, apologised and
> compensated to Jewish victims while Japan refused to admit her was
> aggression during World War II. How can such a country like Japan be
> honored a permanent U.N. Seat ?
>
>
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| Re: War Monger Japan wants to launch a pre-emptive strike on Korea !!! [message #225618 ] |
So, 16 Juli 2006 21:24 |
|
"usenet" <ejeong2 [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:xzuug.67086$fb2.7673 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> If you are so emphatic about Japanese immoral behavior, why don't you use
> HanKookIn for your name instead of HankookJin which is a Japanese way of
> pronunciation.
>
What about just "kook"?
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