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|
Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » Same-Sex Relationships
| Same-Sex Relationships [message #225751] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 14:25 |
|
Sex has become shameful due to years of religious over-painting with the
colors of sin and guilt. Osho takes us back to the joy, juice and jubilation
of being natural.
I find myself mostly attracted to women and very rarely deeply to a
man. It bothers me a little.
Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor
sin. Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge
they were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were
having sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of
knowledge was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of
it they became ashamed.
Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego. It
created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human beings.
These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
started trying to get rid of it.
The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There is
no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you will
fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality has
arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality was
born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks to
live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
them by great walls.
Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we don't
allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product of
this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If a
boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This is
not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists and
is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will be
at a loss as to what to do!
This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
social disease spread all over the world.
Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
became of old Cholmondeley?"
"Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
"An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
"Heavens, no! It was a female "
If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but we
never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is fun,
it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
activity too, and the best of exercises.
If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried even
if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love a
woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman and
a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman. So
half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
part of you is man and part of you is woman.
So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your man
part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
bigger problems.
The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built on
a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
first love."
"How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under that
tree?"
"Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over there
either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
my first love affair."
"Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
asked the architect.
"Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
"But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
"Baaa."
There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you are
attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been happening
always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian will
ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get disturbed.
There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only feel
attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love with
money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into relationship
with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go deep
in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women, my
understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
monotonous, a little boring.
But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these things.
Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
will remain interested and attracted towards women.
My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go deeply
into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
finished with it.
Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It will
remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are of
the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will be
there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship will
be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't be
worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
promises.
Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on the
other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is no
intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you will
not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody else
to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow anybody
to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
love.
Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you into
heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude, into
that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor sin.
Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge they
were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were having
sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of knowledge
was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of it they
became ashamed.
Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego. It
created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human beings.
These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
started trying to get rid of it.
The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There is
no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you will
fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality has
arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality was
born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks to
live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
them by great walls.
Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we don't
allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product of
this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If a
boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This is
not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists and
is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will be
at a loss as to what to do!
This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
social disease spread all over the world.
Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
became of old Cholmondeley?"
"Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
"An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
"Heavens, no! It was a female "
If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but we
never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is fun,
it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
activity too, and the best of exercises.
If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried even
if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love a
woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman and
a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman. So
half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
part of you is man and part of you is woman.
So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your man
part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
bigger problems.
The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built on
a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
first love."
"How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under that
tree?"
"Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over there
either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
my first love affair."
"Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
asked the architect.
"Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
"But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
"Baaa."
There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you are
attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been happening
always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian will
ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get disturbed.
There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only feel
attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love with
money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into relationship
with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go deep
in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women, my
understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
monotonous, a little boring.
But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these things.
Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
will remain interested and attracted towards women.
My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go deeply
into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
finished with it.
Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It will
remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are of
the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will be
there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship will
be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't be
worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
promises.
Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on the
other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is no
intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you will
not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody else
to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow anybody
to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
love.
Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you into
heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude, into
that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
Be Still and Know
To read more on this subject, go to Library
Copyright © 2006 Osho International Foundation
http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Magazine&Language=Engl ish
|
|
|
| Re: Same-Sex Relationships [message #225755 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 11:18 |
|
dd wrote:
> Sex has become shameful due to years of religious over-painting with the
> colors of sin and guilt. Osho takes us back to the joy, juice and jubilat=
ion
> of being natural.
>
> I find myself mostly attracted to women and very rarely deeply to a
> man. It bothers me a little.
>
>
> Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor
> sin. Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of knowled=
ge
> they were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were
> having sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of
> knowledge was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of
> it they became ashamed.
> Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
> became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
> animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
> animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego. =
It
> created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human bein=
gs.
> These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
> we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
> Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
> started trying to get rid of it.
> The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There=
is
> no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
> when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
> your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you w=
ill
> fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
> get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality h=
as
> arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality =
was
> born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks=
to
> live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
> them by great walls.
> Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
> in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
> women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we do=
n't
> allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product =
of
> this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
> the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
> From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
> playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
> sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If=
a
> boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
> If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This =
is
> not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists =
and
> is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
> creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
> beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
> carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will =
be
> at a loss as to what to do!
> This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
> social disease spread all over the world.
>
> Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
> acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
> became of old Cholmondeley?"
> "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
> and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
> "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
> "Heavens, no! It was a female "
>
> If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
> We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
> conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
> taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
> condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but =
we
> never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is f=
un,
> it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
> nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
> activity too, and the best of exercises.
> If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried e=
ven
> if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
> going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
> unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
> world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love=
a
> woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
> Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman =
and
> a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman. =
So
> half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
> part of you is man and part of you is woman.
> So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your m=
an
> part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
> woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
> basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
> them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
> seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
> become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
> bigger problems.
>
> The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built=
on
> a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
> that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
> first love."
> "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under t=
hat
> tree?"
> "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over the=
re
> either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
> my first love affair."
> "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
> asked the architect.
> "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
> "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
> "Baaa."
>
> There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you a=
re
> attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
> little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been happen=
ing
> always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
> particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian wi=
ll
> ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
> they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
> question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
> the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get disturbe=
d=2E
>
> There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only f=
eel
> attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
> better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
> Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love w=
ith
> money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
> perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
> You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into relationsh=
ip
> with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go d=
eep
> in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women, =
my
> understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
> cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
> needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
> fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
> relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
> monotonous, a little boring.
> But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these thin=
gs.
> Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
> will remain interested and attracted towards women.
> My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go dee=
ply
> into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
> find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
> treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
> finished with it.
> Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It w=
ill
> remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
> depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
> comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
> gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
> Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
> fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
> understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
> each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are=
of
> the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will=
be
> there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship w=
ill
> be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
> understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
> With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
> misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
> different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
> thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
> Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't =
be
> worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
> that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
> relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
> man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
> man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
> promises.
> Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
> what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
> beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
> can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on =
the
> other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
> When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is=
no
> intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you wi=
ll
> not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
> another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
> relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
> will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody el=
se
> to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow anybo=
dy
> to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
> love.
> Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you i=
nto
> heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
> to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude, i=
nto
> that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
> Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor si=
n=2E
> Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge th=
ey
> were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were hav=
ing
> sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of knowle=
dge
> was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of it they
> became ashamed.
> Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
> became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
> animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
> animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego. =
It
> created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human bein=
gs.
> These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
> we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
> Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
> started trying to get rid of it.
> The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There=
is
> no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
> when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
> your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you w=
ill
> fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
> get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality h=
as
> arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality =
was
> born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks=
to
> live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
> them by great walls.
> Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
> in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
> women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we do=
n't
> allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product =
of
> this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
> the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
> From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
> playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
> sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If=
a
> boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
> If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This =
is
> not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists =
and
> is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
> creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
> beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
> carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will =
be
> at a loss as to what to do!
> This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
> social disease spread all over the world.
>
> Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
> acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
> became of old Cholmondeley?"
> "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
> and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
> "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
> "Heavens, no! It was a female "
>
> If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
> We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
> conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
> taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
> condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but =
we
> never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is f=
un,
> it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
> nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
> activity too, and the best of exercises.
> If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried e=
ven
> if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
> going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
> unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
> world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love=
a
> woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
> Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman =
and
> a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman. =
So
> half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
> part of you is man and part of you is woman.
> So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your m=
an
> part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
> woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
> basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
> them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
> seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
> become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
> bigger problems.
>
> The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built=
on
> a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
> that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
> first love."
> "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under t=
hat
> tree?"
> "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over the=
re
> either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
> my first love affair."
> "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
> asked the architect.
> "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
> "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
> "Baaa."
>
> There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you a=
re
> attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
> little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been happen=
ing
> always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
> particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian wi=
ll
> ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
> they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
> question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
> the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get disturbe=
d=2E
>
> There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only f=
eel
> attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
> better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
> Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love w=
ith
> money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
> perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
> You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into relationsh=
ip
> with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go d=
eep
> in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women, =
my
> understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
> cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
> needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
> fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
> relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
> monotonous, a little boring.
> But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these thin=
gs.
> Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
> will remain interested and attracted towards women.
> My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go dee=
ply
> into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
> find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
> treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
> finished with it.
> Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It w=
ill
> remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
> depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
> comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
> gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
> Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
> fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
> understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
> each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are=
of
> the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will=
be
> there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship w=
ill
> be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
> understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
> With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
> misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
> different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
> thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
> Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't =
be
> worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
> that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
> relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
> man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
> man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
> promises.
> Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
> what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
> beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
> can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on =
the
> other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
> When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is=
no
> intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you wi=
ll
> not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
> another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
> relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
> will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody el=
se
> to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow anybo=
dy
> to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
> love.
> Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you i=
nto
> heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
> to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude, i=
nto
> that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
>
>
> Be Still and Know
>
> To read more on this subject, go to Library
>
>
> Copyright =A9 2006 Osho International Foundation
> http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=3DMagazine&Language=3D English
>
>
>
>
> begin 666 Spacer.gif
> M1TE&.#EA`0`!`)'_`/___P```/___P```"'_"T%$3T)%.DE2,2XP`M[M` "'Y
> 6! $```(`+ `````!``$```("5 $`.P``
> `
> end
|
|
|
| Re: Same-Sex Relationships [message #225803 ] |
Mo, 17 Juli 2006 14:25 |
|
So you are female and do you not think that the original sin was simply Adam
and Eve's indulgence in their sexuality and thereby engaged in the sexual
act which made them embarrassed of their sexual differences and thereby
paved the way for original sin.
"dd" <dd [at] d.com> wrote in message news:44bb51a1 [at] news.starhub.net.sg...
> Sex has become shameful due to years of religious over-painting with the
> colors of sin and guilt. Osho takes us back to the joy, juice and
jubilation
> of being natural.
>
> I find myself mostly attracted to women and very rarely deeply to a
> man. It bothers me a little.
>
>
> Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor
> sin. Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of
knowledge
> they were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were
> having sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of
> knowledge was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of
> it they became ashamed.
> Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
> became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
> animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
> animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego.
It
> created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human
beings.
> These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
> we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
> Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
> started trying to get rid of it.
> The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There
is
> no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
> when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
> your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you
will
> fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
> get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality
has
> arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality
was
> born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks
to
> live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
> them by great walls.
> Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
> in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
> women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we
don't
> allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product
of
> this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
> the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
> From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
> playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
> sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If
a
> boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
> If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This
is
> not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists
and
> is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
> creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
> beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
> carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will
be
> at a loss as to what to do!
> This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
> social disease spread all over the world.
>
> Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
> acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
> became of old Cholmondeley?"
> "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
> and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
> "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
> "Heavens, no! It was a female "
>
> If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
> We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
> conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
> taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
> condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but
we
> never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is
fun,
> it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
> nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
> activity too, and the best of exercises.
> If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried
even
> if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
> going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
> unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
> world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love
a
> woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
> Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman
and
> a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman.
So
> half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
> part of you is man and part of you is woman.
> So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your
man
> part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
> woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
> basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
> them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
> seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
> become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
> bigger problems.
>
> The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built
on
> a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
> that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
> first love."
> "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under
that
> tree?"
> "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over
there
> either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
> my first love affair."
> "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
> asked the architect.
> "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
> "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
> "Baaa."
>
> There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you
are
> attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
> little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been
happening
> always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
> particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian
will
> ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
> they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
> question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
> the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get
disturbed.
>
> There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only
feel
> attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
> better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
> Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love
with
> money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
> perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
> You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into
relationship
> with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go
deep
> in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women,
my
> understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
> cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
> needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
> fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
> relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
> monotonous, a little boring.
> But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these
things.
> Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
> will remain interested and attracted towards women.
> My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go
deeply
> into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
> find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
> treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
> finished with it.
> Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It
will
> remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
> depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
> comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
> gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
> Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
> fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
> understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
> each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are
of
> the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will
be
> there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship
will
> be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
> understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
> With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
> misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
> different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
> thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
> Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't
be
> worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
> that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
> relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
> man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
> man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
> promises.
> Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
> what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
> beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
> can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on
the
> other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
> When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is
no
> intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you
will
> not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
> another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
> relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
> will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody
else
> to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow
anybody
> to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
> love.
> Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you
into
> heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
> to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude,
into
> that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
> Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor
sin.
> Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge
they
> were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were
having
> sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of
knowledge
> was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of it they
> became ashamed.
> Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
> became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
> animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
> animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego.
It
> created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human
beings.
> These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
> we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
> Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
> started trying to get rid of it.
> The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There
is
> no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
> when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
> your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you
will
> fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
> get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality
has
> arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality
was
> born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks
to
> live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
> them by great walls.
> Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
> in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
> women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we
don't
> allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product
of
> this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
> the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
> From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
> playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
> sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If
a
> boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
> If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This
is
> not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists
and
> is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
> creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
> beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
> carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will
be
> at a loss as to what to do!
> This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
> social disease spread all over the world.
>
> Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
> acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
> became of old Cholmondeley?"
> "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
> and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
> "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
> "Heavens, no! It was a female "
>
> If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
> We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
> conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
> taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
> condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but
we
> never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is
fun,
> it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
> nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
> activity too, and the best of exercises.
> If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried
even
> if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
> going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
> unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
> world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love
a
> woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
> Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman
and
> a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman.
So
> half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
> part of you is man and part of you is woman.
> So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your
man
> part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
> woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
> basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
> them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
> seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
> become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
> bigger problems.
>
> The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built
on
> a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
> that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
> first love."
> "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under
that
> tree?"
> "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over
there
> either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
> my first love affair."
> "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
> asked the architect.
> "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
> "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
> "Baaa."
>
> There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you
are
> attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
> little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been
happening
> always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
> particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian
will
> ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
> they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
> question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
> the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get
disturbed.
>
> There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only
feel
> attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
> better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
> Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love
with
> money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
> perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
> You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into
relationship
> with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go
deep
> in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women,
my
> understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
> cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
> needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
> fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
> relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
> monotonous, a little boring.
> But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these
things.
> Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
> will remain interested and attracted towards women.
> My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go
deeply
> into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
> find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
> treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
> finished with it.
> Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It
will
> remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
> depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
> comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
> gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
> Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
> fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
> understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
> each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are
of
> the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will
be
> there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship
will
> be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
> understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
> With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
> misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
> different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
> thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
> Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't
be
> worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
> that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
> relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
> man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
> man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
> promises.
> Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
> what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
> beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
> can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on
the
> other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
> When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is
no
> intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you
will
> not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
> another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
> relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
> will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody
else
> to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow
anybody
> to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
> love.
> Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you
into
> heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
> to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude,
into
> that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
>
>
> Be Still and Know
>
> To read more on this subject, go to Library
>
>
> Copyright © 2006 Osho International Foundation
> http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Magazine&Language=Engl ish
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
| Dr. Bitter Anko & Vernon North = Same-Sex Relationships [message #226287 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 00:39 |
|
|
CONGRADULATIONS to Anko & Vernon.
|
|
|
| Re: Same-Sex Relationships [message #226293 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 01:03 |
|
ardeedee wrote:
> So you are female and do you not think that the original sin was simply A=
dam
> and Eve's indulgence in their sexuality and thereby engaged in the sexual
> act which made them embarrassed of their sexual differences and thereby
> paved the way for original sin.
Oh!! come on, who give a damn about Adam and Eve. Sex is part of life
for millions of years.
>
>
>
> "dd" <dd [at] d.com> wrote in message news:44bb51a1 [at] news.starhub.net.sg...
> > Sex has become shameful due to years of religious over-painting with the
> > colors of sin and guilt. Osho takes us back to the joy, juice and
> jubilation
> > of being natural.
> >
> > I find myself mostly attracted to women and very rarely deeply to=
a
> > man. It bothers me a little.
> >
> >
> > Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original =
nor
> > sin. Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of
> knowledge
> > they were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden w=
ere
> > having sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit =
of
> > knowledge was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware=
of
> > it they became ashamed.
> > Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
> > became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
> > animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is =
an
> > animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego.
> It
> > created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human
> beings.
> > These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. =
But
> > we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
> > Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
> > started trying to get rid of it.
> > The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. The=
re
> is
> > no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment co=
mes
> > when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
> > your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you
> will
> > fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying=
to
> > get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality
> has
> > arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality
> was
> > born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced mon=
ks
> to
> > live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separa=
ted
> > them by great walls.
> > Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries =
and
> > in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men =
and
> > women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we
> don't
> > allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product
> of
> > this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the wor=
ld
> > the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
> > From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
> > playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you=
a
> > sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" =
If
> a
> > boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girl=
s=2E"
> > If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This
> is
> > not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists
> and
> > is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
> > creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
> > beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
> > carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will
> be
> > at a loss as to what to do!
> > This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It i=
s a
> > social disease spread all over the world.
> >
> > Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
> > acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
> > became of old Cholmondeley?"
> > "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
> > and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
> > "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
> > "Heavens, no! It was a female "
> >
> > If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
> > We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
> > conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should =
be
> > taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
> > condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but
> we
> > never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is
> fun,
> > it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
> > nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
> > activity too, and the best of exercises.
> > If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried
> even
> > if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is =
not
> > going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
> > unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
> > world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may lo=
ve
> a
> > woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are the=
re.
> > Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman
> and
> > a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman.
> So
> > half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your moth=
er;
> > part of you is man and part of you is woman.
> > So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your
> man
> > part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are=
a
> > woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is=
my
> > basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyo=
nd
> > them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
> > seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, y=
ou
> > become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
> > bigger problems.
> >
> > The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house bui=
lt
> on
> > a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't distu=
rb
> > that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
> > first love."
> > "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under
> that
> > tree?"
> > "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over
> there
> > either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was hav=
ing
> > my first love affair."
> > "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter=
?"
> > asked the architect.
> > "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
> > "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
> > "Baaa."
> >
> > There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you
> are
> > attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay=
.. A
> > little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been
> happening
> > always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
> > particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian
> will
> > ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in Ind=
ia;
> > they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
> > question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part =
of
> > the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get
> disturbed.
> >
> > There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only
> feel
> > attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
> > better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
> > Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love
> with
> > money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the r=
eal
> > perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
> > You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into
> relationship
> > with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go
> deep
> > in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women,
> my
> > understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relations=
hip
> > cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relations=
hip
> > needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
> > fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
> > relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
> > monotonous, a little boring.
> > But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these
> things.
> > Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
> > will remain interested and attracted towards women.
> > My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go
> deeply
> > into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
> > find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
> > treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
> > finished with it.
> > Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It
> will
> > remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
> > depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
> > comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They l=
ook
> > gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
> > Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
> > fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
> > understand each other far better than one man and one woman can underst=
and
> > each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they a=
re
> of
> > the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness wi=
ll
> be
> > there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship
> will
> > be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, mo=
re
> > understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
> > With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
> > misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
> > different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
> > thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
> > Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't
> be
> > worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationsh=
ip
> > that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
> > relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship wit=
h a
> > man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
> > man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment=
it
> > promises.
> > Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
> > what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to=
go
> > beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person w=
ho
> > can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on
> the
> > other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
> > When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there =
is
> no
> > intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you
> will
> > not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is qu=
ite
> > another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You wi=
ll
> > relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but =
you
> > will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody
> else
> > to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow
> anybody
> > to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
> > love.
> > Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you
> into
> > heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not go=
ing
> > to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude,
> into
> > that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
> > Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor
> sin.
> > Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge
> they
> > were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were
> having
> > sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of
> knowledge
> > was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of it they
> > became ashamed.
> > Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
> > became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
> > animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is =
an
> > animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego.
> It
> > created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human
> beings.
> > These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. =
But
> > we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
> > Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
> > started trying to get rid of it.
> > The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. The=
re
> is
> > no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment co=
mes
> > when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
> > your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you
> will
> > fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying=
to
> > get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality
> has
> > arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality
> was
> > born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced mon=
ks
> to
> > live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separa=
ted
> > them by great walls.
> > Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries =
and
> > in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men =
and
> > women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we
> don't
> > allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product
> of
> > this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the wor=
ld
> > the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
> > From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
> > playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you=
a
> > sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" =
If
> a
> > boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girl=
s=2E"
> > If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This
> is
> > not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists
> and
> > is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
> > creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
> > beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
> > carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will
> be
> > at a loss as to what to do!
> > This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It i=
s a
> > social disease spread all over the world.
> >
> > Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
> > acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
> > became of old Cholmondeley?"
> > "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
> > and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
> > "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
> > "Heavens, no! It was a female "
> >
> > If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
> > We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
> > conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should =
be
> > taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
> > condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but
> we
> > never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is
> fun,
> > it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
> > nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
> > activity too, and the best of exercises.
> > If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried
> even
> > if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is =
not
> > going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
> > unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
> > world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may lo=
ve
> a
> > woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are the=
re.
> > Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman
> and
> > a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman.
> So
> > half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your moth=
er;
> > part of you is man and part of you is woman.
> > So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your
> man
> > part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are=
a
> > woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is=
my
> > basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyo=
nd
> > them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
> > seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, y=
ou
> > become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
> > bigger problems.
> >
> > The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house bui=
lt
> on
> > a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't distu=
rb
> > that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
> > first love."
> > "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under
> that
> > tree?"
> > "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over
> there
> > either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was hav=
ing
> > my first love affair."
> > "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter=
?"
> > asked the architect.
> > "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
> > "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
> > "Baaa."
> >
> > There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you
> are
> > attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay=
.. A
> > little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been
> happening
> > always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
> > particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian
> will
> > ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in Ind=
ia;
> > they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
> > question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part =
of
> > the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get
> disturbed.
> >
> > There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only
> feel
> > attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
> > better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
> > Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love
> with
> > money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the r=
eal
> > perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
> > You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into
> relationship
> > with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go
> deep
> > in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women,
> my
> > understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relations=
hip
> > cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relations=
hip
> > needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
> > fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
> > relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
> > monotonous, a little boring.
> > But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these
> things.
> > Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
> > will remain interested and attracted towards women.
> > My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go
> deeply
> > into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
> > find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
> > treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
> > finished with it.
> > Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It
> will
> > remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
> > depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
> > comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They l=
ook
> > gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
> > Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
> > fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
> > understand each other far better than one man and one woman can underst=
and
> > each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they a=
re
> of
> > the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness wi=
ll
> be
> > there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship
> will
> > be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, mo=
re
> > understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
> > With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
> > misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
> > different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
> > thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
> > Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't
> be
> > worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationsh=
ip
> > that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
> > relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship wit=
h a
> > man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
> > man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment=
it
> > promises.
> > Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
> > what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to=
go
> > beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person w=
ho
> > can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on
> the
> > other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
> > When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there =
is
> no
> > intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you
> will
> > not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is qu=
ite
> > another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You wi=
ll
> > relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but =
you
> > will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody
> else
> > to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow
> anybody
> > to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
> > love.
> > Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you
> into
> > heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not go=
ing
> > to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude,
> into
> > that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
> >
> >
> > Be Still and Know
> >
> > To read more on this subject, go to Library
> >
> >
> > Copyright =A9 2006 Osho International Foundation
> > http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=3DMagazine&Language=3D English
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
|
|
|
| Re: Same-Sex Relationships [message #227121 ] |
Di, 18 Juli 2006 08:57 |
|
ha ha ha ha
ardeedee treads on rst0wxyz the bed-maid cunt's toe !!!!
that bed-maid cunt is living on original sin to get so many handbags and
waist-watch to be sold in flea market !!!!!
rst0wxyz [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> ardeedee wrote:
>
>>So you are female and do you not think that the original sin was simply Adam
>>and Eve's indulgence in their sexuality and thereby engaged in the sexual
>>act which made them embarrassed of their sexual differences and thereby
>>paved the way for original sin.
>
>
> Oh!! come on, who give a damn about Adam and Eve. Sex is part of life
> for millions of years.
>
>
>>
>>
>>"dd" <dd [at] d.com> wrote in message news:44bb51a1 [at] news.starhub.net.sg...
>>
>>>Sex has become shameful due to years of religious over-painting with the
>>>colors of sin and guilt. Osho takes us back to the joy, juice and
>>
>>jubilation
>>
>>>of being natural.
>>>
>>> I find myself mostly attracted to women and very rarely deeply to a
>>>man. It bothers me a little.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor
>>>sin. Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of
>>
>>knowledge
>>
>>>they were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were
>>>having sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of
>>>knowledge was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of
>>>it they became ashamed.
>>> Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
>>>became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
>>>animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
>>>animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego.
>>
>>It
>>
>>>created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human
>>
>>beings.
>>
>>>These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
>>>we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
>>> Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
>>>started trying to get rid of it.
>>> The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There
>>
>>is
>>
>>>no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
>>>when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
>>>your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you
>>
>>will
>>
>>>fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
>>>get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality
>>
>>has
>>
>>>arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality
>>
>>was
>>
>>>born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks
>>
>>to
>>
>>>live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
>>>them by great walls.
>>> Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
>>>in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
>>>women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we
>>
>>don't
>>
>>>allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product
>>
>>of
>>
>>>this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
>>>the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
>>> From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
>>>playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
>>>sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If
>>
>>a
>>
>>>boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
>>> If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This
>>
>>is
>>
>>>not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists
>>
>>and
>>
>>>is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
>>>creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
>>>beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
>>>carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will
>>
>>be
>>
>>>at a loss as to what to do!
>>> This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
>>>social disease spread all over the world.
>>>
>>> Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
>>>acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
>>>became of old Cholmondeley?"
>>> "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
>>>and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
>>> "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
>>> "Heavens, no! It was a female "
>>>
>>> If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
>>> We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
>>>conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
>>>taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
>>>condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but
>>
>>we
>>
>>>never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is
>>
>>fun,
>>
>>>it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
>>>nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
>>>activity too, and the best of exercises.
>>> If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried
>>
>>even
>>
>>>if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
>>>going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
>>>unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
>>>world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love
>>
>>a
>>
>>>woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
>>> Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman
>>
>>and
>>
>>>a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman.
>>
>>So
>>
>>>half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
>>>part of you is man and part of you is woman.
>>> So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your
>>
>>man
>>
>>>part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
>>>woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
>>>basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
>>>them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
>>>seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
>>>become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
>>>bigger problems.
>>>
>>> The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built
>>
>>on
>>
>>>a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
>>>that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
>>>first love."
>>> "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under
>>
>>that
>>
>>>tree?"
>>> "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over
>>
>>there
>>
>>>either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
>>>my first love affair."
>>> "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
>>>asked the architect.
>>> "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
>>> "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
>>> "Baaa."
>>>
>>> There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you
>>
>>are
>>
>>>attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
>>>little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been
>>
>>happening
>>
>>>always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
>>>particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian
>>
>>will
>>
>>>ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
>>>they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
>>>question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
>>>the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get
>>
>>disturbed.
>>
>>> There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only
>>
>>feel
>>
>>>attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
>>>better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
>>>Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love
>>
>>with
>>
>>>money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
>>>perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
>>> You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into
>>
>>relationship
>>
>>>with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go
>>
>>deep
>>
>>>in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women,
>>
>>my
>>
>>>understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
>>>cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
>>>needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
>>>fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
>>>relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
>>>monotonous, a little boring.
>>> But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these
>>
>>things.
>>
>>>Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
>>>will remain interested and attracted towards women.
>>> My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go
>>
>>deeply
>>
>>>into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
>>>find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
>>>treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
>>>finished with it.
>>> Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It
>>
>>will
>>
>>>remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
>>>depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
>>>comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
>>>gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
>>> Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
>>>fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
>>>understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
>>>each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are
>>
>>of
>>
>>>the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will
>>
>>be
>>
>>>there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship
>>
>>will
>>
>>>be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
>>>understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
>>> With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
>>>misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
>>>different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
>>>thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
>>> Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
>>>that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
>>>relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
>>>man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
>>>man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
>>>promises.
>>> Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
>>>what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
>>>beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
>>>can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on
>>
>>the
>>
>>>other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
>>> When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is
>>
>>no
>>
>>>intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you
>>
>>will
>>
>>>not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
>>>another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
>>>relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
>>>will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody
>>
>>else
>>
>>>to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow
>>
>>anybody
>>
>>>to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
>>>love.
>>> Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you
>>
>>into
>>
>>>heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
>>>to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude,
>>
>>into
>>
>>>that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
>>> Sex has been called the original sin. It is neither original nor
>>
>>sin.
>>
>>>Even before Adam and Eve ever ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge
>>
>>they
>>
>>>were having sex, and all the other animals in the Garden of Eden were
>>
>>having
>>
>>>sex. The only thing that happened after the eating of the fruit of
>>
>>knowledge
>>
>>>was awareness: they became aware of it. And by becoming aware of it they
>>>became ashamed.
>>> Why did they become ashamed? From where did this shame come? They
>>>became ashamed because they saw that they were behaving just like other
>>>animals. But what is wrong in behaving just like other animals? Man is an
>>>animal too. But the ego came in: the fruit of knowledge created the ego.
>>
>>It
>>
>>>created superiority, the idea of superiority: "We are superior human
>>
>>beings.
>>
>>>These foolish animals, if they do certain things they can be forgiven. But
>>>we cannot be forgiven; this is below our dignity."
>>> Sex is such a fundamental activity in nature that the ego of man
>>>started trying to get rid of it.
>>> The first thing I would like you to remember: sex is natural. There
>>
>>is
>>
>>>no need to make any effort to get rid of it.although I know a moment comes
>>>when you transcend it, that is something totally different. It is not by
>>>your effort that you can get rid of it; if you try to get rid of it you
>>
>>will
>>
>>>fall a victim of perversions. Because for centuries man has been trying to
>>>get rid of sex, he has created many kinds of perversions. Homosexuality
>>
>>has
>>
>>>arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality
>>
>>was
>>
>>>born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks
>>
>>to
>>
>>>live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated
>>>them by great walls.
>>> Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and
>>>in the army, because these are the two places where we don't allow men and
>>>women to mix. Or it happens in boys' and girls' hostels; there also we
>>
>>don't
>>
>>>allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product
>>
>>of
>>
>>>this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world
>>>the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.
>>> From their very childhood we start separating them. If a boy is
>>>playing with girls we condemn him. We say, "What are you doing? Are you a
>>>sissy? You are a boy, you are a man! Be a man, don't play with girls!" If
>>
>>a
>>
>>>boy is playing with dolls we immediately condemn him: "This is for girls."
>>> If a girl is trying to climb a tree we stop her immediately: "This
>>
>>is
>>
>>>not right; this is against feminine grace." If a girl tries and persists
>>
>>and
>>
>>>is rebellious she is called a tomboy; she is not respected. We start
>>>creating these ugly divisions. Girls enjoy climbing trees; it is such a
>>>beautiful experience. And what is wrong in playing with dolls? A boy can
>>>carry dolls, because in life he will have to meet dolls and then he will
>>
>>be
>>
>>>at a loss as to what to do!
>>> This whole phenomenon has nothing to do with you personally. It is a
>>>social disease spread all over the world.
>>>
>>> Two English gentlemen of the old school were discussing old
>>>acquaintances one evening in their London club. "What," asked one, "ever
>>>became of old Cholmondeley?"
>>> "Why, didn't you hear? Cholmondeley went to Africa on a game hunt,
>>>and, by Jove, the chap took up with an ape!"
>>> "An ape? Is the old boy queer?"
>>> "Heavens, no! It was a female "
>>>
>>> If it is a female, even though an ape, it is perfectly okay.
>>> We create these conditionings so deeply that out of so much
>>>conditioning sometimes people start revolting against them. Sex should be
>>>taken very naturally - we have been taking it very seriously. Either we
>>>condemn it as ugly, animalistic, or we raise it to something divine, but
>>
>>we
>>
>>>never accept it as human and we never accept it as fun. Basically it is
>>
>>fun,
>>
>>>it is a good sport! And humanity is going to remain burdened with ugly
>>>nonsense if we don't accept its beauty as a sport. It is good physical
>>>activity too, and the best of exercises.
>>> If you take it non-seriously, then there is no need to be worried
>>
>>even
>>
>>>if you are attracted to women. Don't be worried, because your worry is not
>>>going to help. It's perfectly okay. In a really free world which is
>>>unconditioned by the primitive, ignorant past, in a really enlightened
>>>world, we will accept all these things. Yes, once in a while you may love
>>
>>a
>>
>>>woman or a man. Nothing is wrong in it, because inside you both are there.
>>> Each man is both a man and a woman, and each woman is both a woman
>>
>>and
>>
>>>a man, because you are born out of the meeting of one man and one woman.
>>
>>So
>>
>>>half of you comes from your father and half of you comes from your mother;
>>>part of you is man and part of you is woman.
>>> So there is nothing much to be worried about. It may be that your
>>
>>man
>>
>>>part is attracted towards other women, but because biologically you are a
>>>woman you feel afraid. No need to be afraid! Take things easily that is my
>>>basic approach. Take it easy. And by taking things easy one can go beyond
>>>them more comfortably, conveniently, quickly, than by taking things
>>>seriously. If you take them seriously you become entangled with them, you
>>>become burdened with them. And this is not such a big problem. There are
>>>bigger problems.
>>>
>>> The famous Greek shipowner, Ori Oristotle, was having a house built
>>
>>on
>>
>>>a large piece of land in Greece. He said to the architect, "Don't disturb
>>>that tree over there, because directly under that tree is where I had my
>>>first love."
>>> "How sentimental, Mr. Oristotle," said the architect "Right under
>>
>>that
>>
>>>tree?"
>>> "Yes," continued Ori Oristotle. "And don't touch that tree over
>>
>>there
>>
>>>either, because that is where her mother stood watching while I was having
>>>my first love affair."
>>> "Her mother just stood there while you were screwing her daughter?"
>>>asked the architect.
>>> "Yes," said the Greek shipowner.
>>> "But, Mr. Oristotle, what did her mother say?"
>>> "Baaa."
>>>
>>> There are greater problems; your problem is nothing. At least you
>>
>>are
>>
>>>attracted to other women.at least to other human beings. Perfectly okay. A
>>>little outlandish, but not too serious. Things like that have been
>>
>>happening
>>
>>>always. Now people have become more courageous and they ask questions;
>>>particularly in the West people have become more honest. Now no Indian
>>
>>will
>>
>>>ask such a question. Not that things like that are not happening in India;
>>>they are happening but no Indian will have courage enough to ask such a
>>>question. Things like that are always happening everywhere. It is part of
>>>the human scene. So don't make much fuss about it, and don't get
>>
>>disturbed.
>>
>>> There are people so dull, so dead, so insensitive, that they only
>>
>>feel
>>
>>>attracted towards money, or political power, or fame. You are in a far
>>>better situation; at least you are not in love with money. Even Ori
>>>Oristotle was in a far better situation than the people who are in love
>>
>>with
>>
>>>money. But these people are not thought to be perverted. They are the real
>>>perverts: money is their whole life, their devotion; money is their god.
>>> You are attracted to women: perfectly good. Go deep into
>>
>>relationship
>>
>>>with women. If you make an anxiety out of it you will not be able to go
>>
>>deep
>>
>>>in relationship with a woman. If you go deep in relationship with women,
>>
>>my
>>
>>>understanding is that sooner or later you will find that this relationship
>>>cannot be very fulfilling, because two women are alike. And a relationship
>>>needs a certain tension to be fulfilling, a certain polarity to be
>>>fulfilling. Two women in love, or two men in love, will have a good
>>>relationship, but it will not be very spicy. It will be a little dull,
>>>monotonous, a little boring.
>>> But if you go deeply, only then will you become aware of these
>>
>>things.
>>
>>>Your anxiety will not allow you to go deep, and then your whole life you
>>>will remain interested and attracted towards women.
>>> My approach about all problems is that if anything is there, go
>>
>>deeply
>>
>>>into it, so either you find the treasure, if it has any treasure, or you
>>>find that it is empty. In both cases you are enriched. If you find the
>>>treasure, of course you are enriched. If you find it is empty, you are
>>>finished with it.
>>> Two women in relationship can't have a very great love affair. It
>>
>>will
>>
>>>remain on plain ground; it will not have heights and it will not have
>>>depths. So people who are afraid of heights and depths will find it very
>>>comfortable, convenient. Hence the homosexuals are called "gay." They look
>>>gay; they look far more gay than heterosexuals.
>>> Heterosexuals are always going into turmoil - more conflict, more
>>>fight, less understanding. It is bound to be so, because two women can
>>>understand each other far better than one man and one woman can understand
>>>each other. Two men can understand each other far better because they are
>>
>>of
>>
>>>the same type, but the spark will be missing. Yes, a certain gayness will
>>
>>be
>>
>>>there, but not great poetry, not great romance - mild. The relationship
>>
>>will
>>
>>>be homeopathic. It will not have adventure, surprises: safe, secure, more
>>>understanding, less conflict, less nagging.
>>> With a man and a woman there are problems.problems of
>>>misunderstanding. They live in totally different worlds; they are two
>>>different poles of consciousness. The woman thinks intuitively, the man
>>>thinks intellectually, hence there is no meeting.
>>> Go as deeply as possible in your relationships with women -- don't
>>
>>be
>>
>>>worried. Soon you will see that there is a different kind of relationship
>>>that can exist only between polar opposites. Then go into a deep
>>>relationship with a man, because only by going deep in relationship with a
>>>man will you be able to know that all relationships fall short. Even the
>>>man/woman relationship falls short; it never brings you the contentment it
>>>promises.
>>> Only through your own experience - not by what Buddha says, not by
>>>what I say.only through your own experience will you one day be able to go
>>>beyond all relationships. Then you can be happy alone. And the person who
>>>can be happy alone is really an individual. If your happiness depends on
>>
>>the
>>
>>>other, you are a slave; you are not yet free, you are in bondage.
>>> When you are happy alone, when you can live with yourself, there is
>>
>>no
>>
>>>intrinsic necessity to be in relationship. That does not mean that you
>>
>>will
>>
>>>not relate. But to relate is one thing, and to be in relationship is quite
>>>another. Relationship is a kind of bondage, relating is sharing. You will
>>>relate with many people, you will share your joy with many people, but you
>>>will not depend on anyone in particular and you will not allow anybody
>>
>>else
>>
>>>to depend on you. You will not be dependent, and you will not allow
>>
>>anybody
>>
>>>to be dependent on you. Then you live out of freedom, out of joy, out of
>>>love.
>>> Enjoy it, it is good .not enough but still good. It will lead you
>>
>>into
>>
>>>heterosexual relationship; that is a little better. Even that is not going
>>>to satisfy. Then that will lead you into meditativeness, into solitude,
>>
>>into
>>
>>>that beauty, that benediction, which happens only when you are alone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Be Still and Know
>>>
>>> To read more on this subject, go to Library
>>>
>>>
>>> Copyright © 2006 Osho International Foundation
>>> http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Magazine&Language=Engl ish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
---
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