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Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » Re: Lebanon civilian deaths morally not same as terror victims -- Bolton
| Re: Lebanon civilian deaths morally not same as terror victims -- Bolton [message #227352] |
Mi, 19 Juli 2006 05:22 |
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In article <2p2rb2tblj6kspq0qmn0c6di8iik4t1hrm [at] 4ax.com>,
Zeno <Zeno [at] home.kom> wrote:
>What is "genocide of Lebanese" ?
The previous poster's analysis makes sense. There is no legitimate
defensive reason to bomb Beirut's airport because if Hezbollah has
been receiving anything from outside, whether it is Syria, Iran, or
your favorite hated institution, it would not be receiving it by
plane.
So Israel's bombing of Beirut's airport puts to rest the claim that
Israel's attack against Lebanon has anything to do with self-defense.
More likely, Israel, with encouraging consultations with the US, has
in mind an extended military operation that will prevent outsiders
from coming into Lebanon, getting in Israel's juggernaut, and stop it
in its tracks. More specifically, who would be coming in via the
airport? No doubt, not those who would draw the ire of Israel and the
US, for sure and easily stopped. International peacekeeping forces,
forced on Israel and the US by international opinions through the UN,
might be them because they cannot be stopped, unless the actual means
for getting them in have been destroyed in advance. Thus the reason
for Israel to destroy all the main roads and transit points Lebanon
has with the world before any Israeli ground operations.
It is quite clear that nothing of this scale is a reaction or an
improvization. It has been meticulously planned for months, if not
for years, with regular consultation with the US. Investigative
journalists/analysts such as Seymour Hersh and Scott Ritter have
repeatedly wrote about a forthcoming war with Syria and Iran, a war
the Israeli government has warned Bush that it wants to have, and
fight on its own if necessary, i.e., if the US doesn't move by this
summer.
And lo, while John Bolton is working hard to get the UNSC to find an
excuse to slap Iran with a chapter-seven based resolution, Israel is
now doing it, apparently having run out of patience as Iran tries
every card in its sleeve to stall Bolton's move. (Remember that Bush
is in a quagmire in Iraq and needs to look good if he decides to help
Israel out to flatten Iran.)
Interestingly, even the Jerusalem Post came forward with an article as
soon as Israel began the attack of Lebanon that the hawks are hoping
that Israel's attack would draw Iran and Syria in. They liken the
attack against Lebanon to raining down enough stones into the Lebanon
pond to create a sufficiently big ripple effect on places as far as
Iran.
Analysis: Hoping the ripples reach Teheran | Jerusalem Post
Lebanon is the pond, the IAF bombs are the stones, and the hope in
Jerusalem is that hurling enough of those stones into the Lebanese
pond will produce a ripple effect felt as far as Teheran.
Israel woke up Thursday morning finding itself facing a two front war
- but not a traditional two front war, rather a two front terrorist
war. And on each front it is facing one of Iran's proxies - Hamas in
the south; Hizbullah in the north.
One of the assumptions of the current campaign is that if you hit the
proxy hard enough, its master will get the message. Prime Minister
Ehud Olmert intimated this much Wednesday when he said he was certain
the IDF actions would "echo in the right places and with the necessary
strength."
(But of course, Iran and Syria are very careful to avoid getting drawn
into the Israeli-Lebanese conflict as Israel wishes.)
Israel has relentlessly pushed its scorch-earth demolition deep into
Lebanon in the past 7 days, talking about the deployment of ground
troops for the first time while saying that it is willing to agree to
a cease-fire, with two provisos: A and B. A is obvious: the return of
the soldiers taken by Hezbollah. B, however, is crazy: that Israel
_completes_ its military operation in Lebanon before swapping of
prisoners would occur, as demanded by the Hezbollah militants.
So, Israel's fiery and indiscriminant bombing raids of Lebanon are
really not about rescuing the two soldiers but about reaching for
something more grand, more deliberately planned. It is so for the
simple reason that by the time Israel _completes_ its self-styled
military operation in Lebanon, the atmosphere will be so bleak that
there may not be two live soldiers left for Israel to take back and
to agree to a cease fire. Thus, there will be _no_ cease fire but
rather, a burning hell, for everyone concerned.
I am not convinced that the smart Israeli generals haven't thought
through this before they came to this condition A and B for truce.
It is more likely that they have written off the lives of these two
soldiers of their own. They have done so as a reuslt of their very
coldblooded calculation of what they would gain by engulfing Lebanon
in flame at these two soldiers' expense.
And let's remember that if it was just a matter of rescuing hostages,
Israel is unparalleled in its ability to accomplish the task. They've
done that with planeload after planeload of hostages in past decades.
The dazzlingly successful rescue missions were the cover stories of
major magazines around the world.
It is also clear that Israel has grand design in using the blackmailed
Bush administration to push through its agenda against Syria and Iran.
(Bush's reaction to the burning of Lebanon reminds one of Nero playing
the lyre in a safe distance as Rome burned. It was like the 9/11 Bush
reacting with little concern, sensitivity, or emotion to the news that
the WTC were attacked by not just one, but two large planes. It was
the reaction of someone who has been apprised of what would happen and
realized that it had come to pass. The only thing different from the
Nero analogy is that Bush projected to the world a boorish, ancient
warrior who cares little about the sanctity of life.)
So, for Israel's hawkish government, the attack of Lebanon is only a
tool to get done its objective to finish off Iran and Syria, after the
US has taken out for it Iraq, its third mortal enemies. Lebanon has
never been a threat to Israel. But Lebanon must be sacrificed, as far
as Israel is concerned. The cost to Lebanon as a nation and to its
people, however, is huge, which the Israel government does not give a
damn, just as it does not give a damn about the lives of the Israeli
soldiers.
Another hypocrisy of note is this. Israel and the US do not want the
Lebanese government to resist Israel or protect its own sovereignty or
its people. (So far, it has meekly complied despite its army soldiers
being killed by Israeli bombs.) Yet Israel and the US complain that
the Hezbollah Lebanese should be so brave to resist Israel and protect
the lives and properties of the Lebanese people. The Israeli and US
governments have no legs to stand on.
The impotent Lebanese government Bush has chosen to praise and support
has done nothing for its people, having ordered its army to stand idle
as Lebanon burns. So, who can we expect the Lebanese to turn to for
support and protection?
Now the stake has been raised because of Israel's thinking: It thinks
that since these hundreds of thousands of Lebanese who look to
Hezbollah for support and protection are traitors or ``terrorist
supporters'', they are fair game as collateral damages of its grand
plan against Hezbollah. Thus, I believe, it is rational for people
who have been watching this war unfold and who are less emotionally
attached to Israel to anticipate a possible genocide to come for the
Lebanese.
Israel likes to invoke the holocaust to justify its current policy to
victimize other people. But like the NAACP chief, Bruce S. Gordon,
has exhorted his fellow African Americans to move beyond the thinking
of being a victim, Israel can survive and prosper in peace with its
neighbors without the need for burning down Lebanon to do it.
And Americans should be wise enough not to support sleazy politicians
like Hillary Clinton who goes around to rallies to speak in support of
Israel's scorching of Lebanon. Here it is clear that American foreign
policy has been hijacked. And blood is in our hands.
Israel for its selfish existence, do not mind spending tens of
thousands of Lebanese lives, if not more, to get what it wants.
How can Israel expect no resentment from the Palestinians and the
Lebanese after it has treated them the way it has done in the past
decades? Shelling from the Hezbollah militants will stop when Israel
removes its settlements in Palestinian territories. For then, Syria
and Iran would have better things to do than to finance a resistance
which has not a cause, the Hezbollah Lebanese shall simply be Lebanese
minding their own livelihood, and the Palestinians will flourish along
with the Israelis, side by side. But Israel has to let that happen.
Israel has to forget about keeping the West Bank settlements, about
seizing Lebanon for access to oil coming from Kurdistan, and about an
expansive homeland as envisioned in the Jewish bible.
The trap the previous poster talked about is pretty obvious. Putin
has talked about Israel's wider goals (than the rescue of hostages).
And of course he is in a position to know.
ST. PETERSBURG, Russia - President Vladimir Putin said he thinks
Israel is pursuing wider goals in its military campaign against
Lebanon than the return of its two captured soldiers.
"However complicated the questions are, maximum efforts must be
applied to resolve the situation in a peaceful way and I think all
efforts have not been exhausted," Putin said early Sunday.
"However, it is our impression that aside from seeking to return the
abducted soldiers, Israel is pursuing wider goals," he said at a
midnight news conference after a dinner opening the summit of the
Group of Eight industrialized nations. He did not elaborate.
Yes, many of us who are not in a position to know as Bush and Putin,
nevertheless, are worried about the expanding scope of Israel's war in
the Middle East. We're worried about genocides.
lo yeeOn
========
>On 18 Jul 2006 16:21:35 -0700, honghsien [at] gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Israel will retain its same level of support and opposition in the
>>world even if there is a genocide of Lebanese. So, then some
>>consideration ought to be devoted on how to avoid falling into this
>>Israeli trap.
>
For the sake of completeness, here is what Michael honghsien wrote:
From: honghsien [at] gmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.republican,soc.
+ culture.iraq,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.
+ europe
[1] Re: Lebanon civilian deaths morally not same as terror victims -- Bolton
Date: Tue Jul 18 19:21:35 EDT 2006
Lines: 43
Hi, Raymond and all.
Raymond wrote:
> Lebanon civilian deaths morally not same as terror victims -- Bolton
>
> Mon Jul 17, 4:47 PM ET
>
> UNITED NATIONS (AFP) - US Ambassador John Bolton said there was no
> moral equivalence between the civilian casualties from the Israeli
> raids in Lebanon and those killed in Israel from "malicious
> terrorist acts."
I see very little comment here about the military potential of this
situation. Israel has destroyed infrastructure to prevent easy entrance
of Syrian forces and to make exit difficult for those fighting against
Israel. It looks as if the Israeli armed forces are punching up Lebanon
to allow descent by air or ship of Israeli forces anywhere in Lebanon.
>From a military perspective it appears this could be the time chosen
for the elimination of armed opponents of Israel.
The relationship to the paragraph above is that if some hundreds of
thousands of Lebanese are killed in this process it will be very nice
This initial stage in the war is like the week or weeks that US armies
simply bombed Iraq in the two wars against Iraq. The war hasn't started
yet, and the objective could well be to kill all armed opponents
anywhere in Lebanon, and hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths will
just be collateral damage, very different from the few killed in
targeted fire by armed adversaries of Israel.
The thing for the enemies of Israel to realize is that already Israel
has incited outrage around the world, but not in the White House, so
nothing is to be gained from this mass unnecessary killing of Lebanese.
Israel will retain its same level of support and opposition in the
world even if there is a genocide of Lebanese. So, then some
consideration ought to be devoted on how to avoid falling into this
Israeli trap.
Peace,
Michael
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| Re: Lebanon civilian deaths morally not same as terror victims -- Bolton [message #227466 ] |
Mi, 19 Juli 2006 18:18 |
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lo yeeOn wrote:
> Interestingly, even the Jerusalem Post came forward with an article as
> soon as Israel began the attack of Lebanon that the hawks are hoping
> that Israel's attack would draw Iran and Syria in. They liken the
> attack against Lebanon to raining down enough stones into the Lebanon
> pond to create a sufficiently big ripple effect on places as far as
> Iran.
Iranian submarine lurking off coast of Lebanon.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/israel/060718b.aspx
CBN News has learned that U.S. military intelligence confirmed that
Iran had a submarine off the coast of Lebanon. Last year, Iran said it
was building its own sub that could fire missiles and torpedoes at the
same time. It's not known whether this is the same vessel.
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