Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Renovation Blog Condo for rent or lease Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog Truck for Sale Reconstruction Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Culture & Politics » soc.culture.china » The different styles of choosing language teachers
The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227376] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 08:53
fyfpoon  
Both HK and Singapore were governed by the British for a long time.
Thus both these two places are still found to be solidly retaining
certain elements of the British culture even after the British left.

In choosing language teachers, and in this case English teachers, the
following requirements seem to be in place in both HK and Singapore for
government-sponsored schools, which reflects the ways of doing things
of the old time British.

These requirements are:
(1)the intellectual background of a teacher, or how learned/educated
this person is, etc..
(2)the ability of this candidate to express himself in English, both in
writing and orally.
(3)the teaching methods the candidate practices.

On the other hand, in both Taiwan and the mainland, where the Chinese
have been governing themselves, the following criteria seem rather
popular:
(1)A foreign or 'non-Chinese' looking appearance, preferrably blondies
with blue eyes.
(2)Emphasis on the 'accent' of the candidate's spoken English, albeit
the school administrators themselves have NO clue that even in UK the
people of different localities and from various social backgrounds
speak with different accents.

Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
to be fulfiled.

The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
appearance and 'native' accent.

I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
education merchants.


FP
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227378 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 09:20
Wakalukong  
fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> Both HK and Singapore were governed by the British for a long time.
> Thus both these two places are still found to be solidly retaining
> certain elements of the British culture even after the British left.
>
> In choosing language teachers, and in this case English teachers, the
> following requirements seem to be in place in both HK and Singapore for
> government-sponsored schools, which reflects the ways of doing things
> of the old time British.
>
> These requirements are:
> (1)the intellectual background of a teacher, or how learned/educated
> this person is, etc..
> (2)the ability of this candidate to express himself in English, both in
> writing and orally.
> (3)the teaching methods the candidate practices.
>
> On the other hand, in both Taiwan and the mainland, where the Chinese
> have been governing themselves, the following criteria seem rather
> popular:
> (1)A foreign or 'non-Chinese' looking appearance, preferrably blondies
> with blue eyes.
> (2)Emphasis on the 'accent' of the candidate's spoken English, albeit
> the school administrators themselves have NO clue that even in UK the
> people of different localities and from various social backgrounds
> speak with different accents.
>
> Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
> to be fulfiled.
>
> The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
> comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
> afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
> a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
> and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
> appearance and 'native' accent.
>
> I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
> their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
> education merchants.
>
>
> FP
----------

I think it's due to ignorance. When you're ignorant, you make
assumptions easily. People in Singapore and HK know better. Even
then, the Singapore Ministry of Education is thinking of importing
native English speakers (i.e. from UK and US) to teach English in
Singapore.

Wakalukong
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227379 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 09:25
ppp  
On 18 Jul 2006 23:53:43 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
>to be fulfiled.
>
>The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
>comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
>afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
>a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
>and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
>appearance and 'native' accent.
>
>I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
>their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
>education merchants.


For mainland China it is necessary that the teacher recruit must have
at least a bachelor's degree. This presumes that the teacher is not
punk dumb school dropout. There is nothing to say that the school has
to put up with any unsuitable candidate once that unsuitability
becomes apparent. They can be sent home without compensation. In fact
foreign teachers risk not being paid by scam schools. Foreign
teachers do not teach any exam credit subjects. Or perhaps their
course is only a minor credit. This mainland method of teaching
English seems to have worked out very well. The students first have
to master their core subjects in Chinese. Specialist credit courses
are available to those who wish to master English in high school and
above. Whatever spoken English by mainland Chinese is so much better
and more pleasant to listen to than English spoken by HK, Malaysian,
Singaporean or Philippino English. The problem with English language
schools in Malaysia, Singapore and Philippines is that their teachers
have not mastered English themselves and speak it poorly.

Graduates and freshly qualified teachers in the western countries
often have difficulty finding jobs commensurate with their university
qualifiaction. Going to China for one or two years is a wonderful
experience and good career move. Although not well paid by western
methods thaty are often paid better than local teachers aqnd live
quite comfortable lives. These teaching posts are much in demand.
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227381 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 10:10
fyfpoon  
ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:

snipped...
The problem with English language
> schools in Malaysia, Singapore and Philippines is that their teachers
> have not mastered English themselves and speak it poorly.

I am not sure about these places but in Hong Kong where its English
standard was once something to be proud of, the English standard of the
current generation of teachers has also been going down. This
phenomenon has a lot to do with the drive for 'social equality'. In
the process of satisfying the popular demand for social equality, the
once elite high schools in HK are under pressure to take in students
who would have been refused back to the old days because of their lower
exam performance and as a result teachers in these schools now have to
slow down in order to allow some students to catch up with the rest.
This was observed at more or less the same time when a victory over
class was scored back home in England.

>
> Graduates and freshly qualified teachers in the western countries

There are very few "freshly qualified" teachers going from the western
countries to China and most of the ones going there are college grads
or once finished college. I am sure those from the English schools in
England are still good or at least not too bad even after years of
political correctness movement in UK but those I have met from the US
are mostly not up to the mark in the eyes of local students and local
administrators. Not only their written English is worse than the local
teachers' but their intellectual maturity barely matches that of the
Chinese high school students.

> often have difficulty finding jobs commensurate with their university
> qualifiaction.

I don't think it is true. If they are unwilling to take up jobs back
home in a job market that is competitive enough, it is because they
have priced themselves out. It is always the equation of supply and
demand that determines the price paid to them. When the school system
back home produces an army of intellectual proletarians or flowery
people instead of people who can work with skills, you will observe
this phenomenon named educated unemployment.

FP
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227390 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 11:29
ppp  
On 19 Jul 2006 01:10:34 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>> Graduates and freshly qualified teachers in the western countries
>
>There are very few "freshly qualified" teachers going from the western
>countries to China and most of the ones going there are college grads
>or once finished college. I am sure those from the English schools in
>England are still good or at least not too bad even after years of
>political correctness movement in UK but those I have met from the US
>are mostly not up to the mark in the eyes of local students and local
>administrators. Not only their written English is worse than the local
>teachers' but their intellectual maturity barely matches that of the
>Chinese high school students.

In China the objective of learning English from a native speaker of
English is to learn to imitate the pronumciation and common
expressions, not learn to be clever in any particular subject. For
this purpose learning from someone of a similar age and way of
thinking "modern youth" is far more fun and efrective than to rry to
cram wisdom into the student's heads. These temps have at most two
year stints and new teachers are recruited. That way the students get
exposed to a variety of foreigners from different English speaking
countries..
>
>> often have difficulty finding jobs commensurate with their university
>> qualifiaction.
>
>I don't think it is true. If they are unwilling to take up jobs back
>home in a job market that is competitive enough, it is because they
>have priced themselves out. It is always the equation of supply and
>demand that determines the price paid to them. When the school system
>back home produces an army of intellectual proletarians or flowery
>people instead of people who can work with skills, you will observe
>this phenomenon named educated unemployment.
>
>FP

In the west pay and work benefits of teaching posts are determined by
the teachers' union. The school board or the government does not have
the power to vary them or it will have a strike on its hands. It has
become so ridiculous that if a person has a PhD and teaching
certification wants to teach she can only be employed at the high
union rate. This is ridiculous because the school did not have the
budget to hire her at that rate but could not hire her at a much lower
rate she had asked . She had moved to this small town and wanted to
teach there. Becuase of union rate salaries many schools can hire
only temporary teachers. These temps have a very uncertain career
because they stay employed only for a few years so that they don't get
too comfortable and agitate for permanent teaching posts. There are
far more teaching graduates thna there are teaching posts in any one
year. Teachers are often temps for as much a ten years before a
school finally takes them on as permanent staff.
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227406 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 13:17
fyfpoon  
ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2006 01:10:34 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Graduates and freshly qualified teachers in the western countries
> >
> >There are very few "freshly qualified" teachers going from the western
> >countries to China and most of the ones going there are college grads
> >or once finished college. I am sure those from the English schools in
> >England are still good or at least not too bad even after years of
> >political correctness movement in UK but those I have met from the US
> >are mostly not up to the mark in the eyes of local students and local
> >administrators. Not only their written English is worse than the local
> >teachers' but their intellectual maturity barely matches that of the
> >Chinese high school students.
>
> In China the objective of learning English from a native speaker of
> English is to learn to imitate the pronumciation and common
> expressions, not learn to be clever in any particular subject.

I think the main achievement so far as I can see as someone who has
taught English in China is that with foreign teachers the Chinese
teaching staff can learn to overcome the inhibition of speaking
English. Most foreign teachers are ignorant of phonics. On that basis
they also help out with the students' pronounciation but in a snall way
only.

For
> this purpose learning from someone of a similar age and way of
> thinking "modern youth" is far more fun and efrective than to rry to
> cram wisdom into the student's heads.

It is more fun, of course, but too many Chinese school authorities have
mis-used foreign teachers by making them teach like regular teachers.
And the gap between reality and expectation is what causes the friction
between the camp that emphasizes interaction and the camp that wants to
have the students' grades uplifted through using foreign teachers.

These temps have at most two
> year stints and new teachers are recruited. That way the students get
> exposed to a variety of foreigners from different English speaking
> countries..
> >
As long as the school authority is aware that foreign teachers cannot
be expected to teach school cirriculum like the local teachers, this
would be fine. As I said, too many local school authorities are
expecting what most foreign teachers are capable of. Most foreign
teachers in China are not teachers back home but have finished a couple
of ESL courses before going to China and calling themselves 'teachers'.

> >> often have difficulty finding jobs commensurate with their university
> >> qualifiaction.
> >
> >I don't think it is true. If they are unwilling to take up jobs back
> >home in a job market that is competitive enough, it is because they
> >have priced themselves out. It is always the equation of supply and
> >demand that determines the price paid to them. When the school system
> >back home produces an army of intellectual proletarians or flowery
> >people instead of people who can work with skills, you will observe
> >this phenomenon named educated unemployment.
> >
> >FP
>
> In the west pay and work benefits of teaching posts are determined by
> the teachers' union. The school board or the government does not have
> the power to vary them or it will have a strike on its hands. It has
> become so ridiculous that if a person has a PhD and teaching
> certification wants to teach she can only be employed at the high
> union rate. This is ridiculous because the school did not have the
> budget to hire her at that rate but could not hire her at a much lower
> rate she had asked . She had moved to this small town and wanted to
> teach there. Becuase of union rate salaries many schools can hire
> only temporary teachers. These temps have a very uncertain career
> because they stay employed only for a few years so that they don't get
> too comfortable and agitate for permanent teaching posts. There are
> far more teaching graduates thna there are teaching posts in any one
> year. Teachers are often temps for as much a ten years before a
> school finally takes them on as permanent staff.

Practically all foreign teacher posts in China are temps. This is why
i advise those foreign teachers not to overstay in China, otherwise one
day when they go home they discover they will have to struggle like
immigrants.
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227424 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 16:03
bear  
still recall how some south africans were amused that Japs would not hire them
cause their national language is Africanaa.

On 18 Jul 2006 23:53:43 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>Both HK and Singapore were governed by the British for a long time.
>Thus both these two places are still found to be solidly retaining
>certain elements of the British culture even after the British left.
>
>In choosing language teachers, and in this case English teachers, the
>following requirements seem to be in place in both HK and Singapore for
>government-sponsored schools, which reflects the ways of doing things
>of the old time British.
>
>These requirements are:
>(1)the intellectual background of a teacher, or how learned/educated
>this person is, etc..
>(2)the ability of this candidate to express himself in English, both in
>writing and orally.
>(3)the teaching methods the candidate practices.
>
>On the other hand, in both Taiwan and the mainland, where the Chinese
>have been governing themselves, the following criteria seem rather
>popular:
>(1)A foreign or 'non-Chinese' looking appearance, preferrably blondies
>with blue eyes.
>(2)Emphasis on the 'accent' of the candidate's spoken English, albeit
>the school administrators themselves have NO clue that even in UK the
>people of different localities and from various social backgrounds
>speak with different accents.
>
>Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
>to be fulfiled.
>
>The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
>comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
>afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
>a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
>and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
>appearance and 'native' accent.
>
>I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
>their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
>education merchants.
>
>
>FP
>
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227444 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 17:07
PeterL  
fyfpoon [at] gmail.com wrote:
> Both HK and Singapore were governed by the British for a long time.
> Thus both these two places are still found to be solidly retaining
> certain elements of the British culture even after the British left.
>
> In choosing language teachers, and in this case English teachers, the
> following requirements seem to be in place in both HK and Singapore for
> government-sponsored schools, which reflects the ways of doing things
> of the old time British.
>
> These requirements are:
> (1)the intellectual background of a teacher, or how learned/educated
> this person is, etc..
> (2)the ability of this candidate to express himself in English, both in
> writing and orally.
> (3)the teaching methods the candidate practices.
>
> On the other hand, in both Taiwan and the mainland, where the Chinese
> have been governing themselves, the following criteria seem rather
> popular:
> (1)A foreign or 'non-Chinese' looking appearance, preferrably blondies
> with blue eyes.
> (2)Emphasis on the 'accent' of the candidate's spoken English, albeit
> the school administrators themselves have NO clue that even in UK the
> people of different localities and from various social backgrounds
> speak with different accents.
>
> Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
> to be fulfiled.
>
> The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
> comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
> afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
> a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
> and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
> appearance and 'native' accent.
>
> I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
> their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
> education merchants.
>

Boy this thing is really bothering you, isn't it? Let it go. Go
outside and enjoy the sunshine and fresh air.

>
> FP
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227446 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 17:11
fyfpoon  
Polar Bear wrote:
> still recall how some south africans were amused that Japs would not hire them
> cause their national language is Africanaa.

Are these South Africans white or black Africans? I would think the
Japanese schools would love to hire anyone who is 'white' and blond,
regardless of what they speak. No?

====================
>
> On 18 Jul 2006 23:53:43 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Both HK and Singapore were governed by the British for a long time.
> >Thus both these two places are still found to be solidly retaining
> >certain elements of the British culture even after the British left.
> >
> >In choosing language teachers, and in this case English teachers, the
> >following requirements seem to be in place in both HK and Singapore for
> >government-sponsored schools, which reflects the ways of doing things
> >of the old time British.
> >
> >These requirements are:
> >(1)the intellectual background of a teacher, or how learned/educated
> >this person is, etc..
> >(2)the ability of this candidate to express himself in English, both in
> >writing and orally.
> >(3)the teaching methods the candidate practices.
> >
> >On the other hand, in both Taiwan and the mainland, where the Chinese
> >have been governing themselves, the following criteria seem rather
> >popular:
> >(1)A foreign or 'non-Chinese' looking appearance, preferrably blondies
> >with blue eyes.
> >(2)Emphasis on the 'accent' of the candidate's spoken English, albeit
> >the school administrators themselves have NO clue that even in UK the
> >people of different localities and from various social backgrounds
> >speak with different accents.
> >
> >Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
> >to be fulfiled.
> >
> >The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
> >comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
> >afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
> >a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
> >and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
> >appearance and 'native' accent.
> >
> >I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
> >their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
> >education merchants.
> >
> >
> >FP
> >
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227512 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 23:52
bear  
On 19 Jul 2006 08:11:17 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Polar Bear wrote:
>> still recall how some south africans were amused that Japs would not hire them
>> cause their national language is Africanaa.
>
>Are these South Africans white or black Africans? I would think the
>Japanese schools would love to hire anyone who is 'white' and blond,
>regardless of what they speak. No?

whites, nothing beats aghering to policy to the letter, the english language
teachers requirement is english must be the mother tongue to the teacher, and
africanaa is mother tongue to south africans.
>
>====================
>>
>> On 18 Jul 2006 23:53:43 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Both HK and Singapore were governed by the British for a long time.
>> >Thus both these two places are still found to be solidly retaining
>> >certain elements of the British culture even after the British left.
>> >
>> >In choosing language teachers, and in this case English teachers, the
>> >following requirements seem to be in place in both HK and Singapore for
>> >government-sponsored schools, which reflects the ways of doing things
>> >of the old time British.
>> >
>> >These requirements are:
>> >(1)the intellectual background of a teacher, or how learned/educated
>> >this person is, etc..
>> >(2)the ability of this candidate to express himself in English, both in
>> >writing and orally.
>> >(3)the teaching methods the candidate practices.
>> >
>> >On the other hand, in both Taiwan and the mainland, where the Chinese
>> >have been governing themselves, the following criteria seem rather
>> >popular:
>> >(1)A foreign or 'non-Chinese' looking appearance, preferrably blondies
>> >with blue eyes.
>> >(2)Emphasis on the 'accent' of the candidate's spoken English, albeit
>> >the school administrators themselves have NO clue that even in UK the
>> >people of different localities and from various social backgrounds
>> >speak with different accents.
>> >
>> >Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
>> >to be fulfiled.
>> >
>> >The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
>> >comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
>> >afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
>> >a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
>> >and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
>> >appearance and 'native' accent.
>> >
>> >I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
>> >their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
>> >education merchants.
>> >
>> >
>> >FP
>> >
>
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227562 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 01:50
fyfpoon  
Polar Bear wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2006 08:11:17 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Polar Bear wrote:
> >> still recall how some south africans were amused that Japs would not hire them
> >> cause their national language is Africanaa.
> >
> >Are these South Africans white or black Africans? I would think the
> >Japanese schools would love to hire anyone who is 'white' and blond,
> >regardless of what they speak. No?
>
> whites, nothing beats aghering to policy to the letter, the english language
> teachers requirement is english must be the mother tongue to the teacher, and
> africanaa is mother tongue to south africans.

In China they hire white Russians and Romanians as English teachers
because the image of an European is an English teaching authority.

> >
> >====================
> >>
> >> On 18 Jul 2006 23:53:43 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Both HK and Singapore were governed by the British for a long time.
> >> >Thus both these two places are still found to be solidly retaining
> >> >certain elements of the British culture even after the British left.
> >> >
> >> >In choosing language teachers, and in this case English teachers, the
> >> >following requirements seem to be in place in both HK and Singapore for
> >> >government-sponsored schools, which reflects the ways of doing things
> >> >of the old time British.
> >> >
> >> >These requirements are:
> >> >(1)the intellectual background of a teacher, or how learned/educated
> >> >this person is, etc..
> >> >(2)the ability of this candidate to express himself in English, both in
> >> >writing and orally.
> >> >(3)the teaching methods the candidate practices.
> >> >
> >> >On the other hand, in both Taiwan and the mainland, where the Chinese
> >> >have been governing themselves, the following criteria seem rather
> >> >popular:
> >> >(1)A foreign or 'non-Chinese' looking appearance, preferrably blondies
> >> >with blue eyes.
> >> >(2)Emphasis on the 'accent' of the candidate's spoken English, albeit
> >> >the school administrators themselves have NO clue that even in UK the
> >> >people of different localities and from various social backgrounds
> >> >speak with different accents.
> >> >
> >> >Once these two criteria are met, there isn't that much that still needs
> >> >to be fulfiled.
> >> >
> >> >The disposable income of the people in mainland China is low in
> >> >comparison to HK and Singapore and thus most schools there could not
> >> >afford to hire qualified teachers but instead have to be contented with
> >> >a bunch of Big Mac kids. But the people in Taiwan have a lot of money
> >> >and they still like to hire Big Mac kids for latter's non-Chinese
> >> >appearance and 'native' accent.
> >> >
> >> >I am not sure if the above phenomenon is due to the Chinese betrayal of
> >> >their learning traditions or the marketing influence of the American
> >> >education merchants.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >FP
> >> >
> >
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227597 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 03:16
ppp  
On 19 Jul 2006 04:17:06 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>I think the main achievement so far as I can see as someone who has
>taught English in China is that with foreign teachers the Chinese
>teaching staff can learn to overcome the inhibition of speaking
>English.


That's an interesting revelation. Do tell us about your experience
teacning in China. Your point about making Chinese teachers more
comfortable in speaking English is well taken. That is one excellent
outcome of employing as many temp native English speakers as possible.
It provides wide exposure to all kinds of personalities. Furthermore
your point

> Most foreign teachers are ignorant of phonics. On that basis
>they also help out with the students' pronounciation but in a snall way
>only.

is not at all a disadvantage. The few Chinese high school and
university students I have met are very keen and knowledgeable on
contemporary world affairs and in most things that go on around them.
The natural expectation is that a "rich foreigner" would be superior
to them in many things. When the locals find that this foreigner
often knows less than them in many areas and are not much better than
themselves in others they (chinese) lose that awe and insecurity when
speaknig with the white guy. This gives the locals the confidence to
speak to the foreigners as equals and perhaps to engage them in debate
as equals. I would think that this unplanned for consequence is far
more important than trying to teach chinese students a core cirriculum
subject using English. In comparison imagine employing an
experienced teacher in English Literature. There is no way a chinese
student can challenge this teacher on his speciality. The result will
be to keep quiet, take a lot of notes and figure out how to score high
marks according to the standard set up by the teacher.
>
>> For this purpose learning from someone of a similar age and way of
>> thinking "modern youth" is far more fun and efrective than to rry to
>> cram wisdom into the student's heads.
>
>It is more fun, of course, but too many Chinese school authorities have
>mis-used foreign teachers by making them teach like regular teachers.
>And the gap between reality and expectation is what causes the friction
>between the camp that emphasizes interaction and the camp that wants to
>have the students' grades uplifted through using foreign teachers.

It is a natural desire to want to get the best products for the
cheapest price. The schools advertise themselves as such to draw fee
paying students. The parents often have to scrape together money to
send their children there. The teachers are freshmen of unknown
quality out there for a year or two of adventure. It is the luck of
the draw no different from the public schools system in the West. You
get good and you get bad teachers. Since these foreign teachers are
not certified to be in China's education system it hardly fair to
expect them to uplift the grades of local students. The local
education authorities should be the regulating authority to determine
if the foreign teachers have been misused.
>
>These temps have at most two
>> year stints and new teachers are recruited. That way the students get
>> exposed to a variety of foreigners from different English speaking
>> countries..
>> >
>As long as the school authority is aware that foreign teachers cannot
>be expected to teach school cirriculum like the local teachers, this
>would be fine. As I said, too many local school authorities are
>expecting what most foreign teachers are capable of. Most foreign
>teachers in China are not teachers back home but have finished a couple
>of ESL courses before going to China and calling themselves 'teachers'.

Ok then. The chinese education authorities should insist on them
being called guest tutors to distinguish them from certified Chinese
teachers. In the plane to Beijing I sat next to a new recruit going
to Harbin to teach. He is 34 and had been in and out of the
university system since high school. He is in his final year for an
undergrad degree in something (aka not employable) and taking time off
to teach in China. He makes a living as a part time musician. A very
interesting character and will indeed impress his students with his
free spirit life. Don't expect any tips from him how to ace exams.
>

>
>Practically all foreign teacher posts in China are temps. This is why
>i advise those foreign teachers not to overstay in China, otherwise one
>day when they go home they discover they will have to struggle like
>immigrants.


I think two years is as long as anyone can tolerate being an
enthusiastic amateur in any situation. Furthermore I doubt the
Chinese government allows them to renew their visas for long term stay
unless the school sponsors them, something a school is unlikely to do.
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227632 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 05:20
fyfpoon  
ppp [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2006 04:17:06 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I think the main achievement so far as I can see as someone who has
> >taught English in China is that with foreign teachers the Chinese
> >teaching staff can learn to overcome the inhibition of speaking
> >English.
>
>
> That's an interesting revelation. Do tell us about your experience
> teacning in China. Your point about making Chinese teachers more
> comfortable in speaking English is well taken. That is one excellent
> outcome of employing as many temp native English speakers as possible.
> It provides wide exposure to all kinds of personalities. Furthermore
> your point

The school i used to work in is being run by a Taiwan ex-politician who
is also a Christian. And the American teachers he recruits are mainly
from the church schools in the US. Morally speaking, they are very
decent people. Through interacting with them, the local teachers have
been helped out of their inhibition of speaking out in English. This
is probably the greatest contribution the foreign teachers make to that
school. The students there, on the other hand, have not got much help
from foreign teachers, partly because their background in English is
too poor and partly because the intellectual standard of these church
school teachers is also very low--------except in their understanding
of the Bible. Thus the final outcome was that classes with foreign
teachers became entertainment classes of movies, joke, going out into
the field to play basket balls...and Santa Clause at year end just to
round it off....However, inspite of their intellectual immaturity, in
comparison to the college grad from UK schools, they are well behaved
people vs those random characters recruited from unknown sources.

Perhaps this is what foreign teachers should do: that is, to carry out
interaction and cultural exchange. Unfortunately the school admin
expected these foreign teachers to help the students pass their high
school exams and they have been hugely disappointed.

> > Most foreign teachers are ignorant of phonics. On that basis
> >they also help out with the students' pronounciation but in a snall way
> >only.
>
> is not at all a disadvantage. The few Chinese high school and
> university students I have met are very keen and knowledgeable on
> contemporary world affairs and in most things that go on around them.
> The natural expectation is that a "rich foreigner" would be superior
> to them in many things. When the locals find that this foreigner
> often knows less than them in many areas and are not much better than
> themselves in others they (chinese) lose that awe and insecurity when
> speaknig with the white guy. This gives the locals the confidence to
> speak to the foreigners as equals and perhaps to engage them in debate
> as equals. I would think that this unplanned for consequence is far
> more important than trying to teach chinese students a core cirriculum
> subject using English.

Exactly, but the Chinese school authorities think they could hire
specialty English teachers teaching this or that specialty subject for
a few thousand rmb a month. The moment when they discover that
interaction and cultural exchange are all there is to be expected, they
get very disappointed. I know in one Chinese university the admin is
training a native speaking kid girl to teach liternature beyond what
she is capable of. It has inflicted so much pain to this little kid
girl.


In comparison imagine employing an
> experienced teacher in English Literature.

But most Chinese schools are too poor to employ 'specialty teachers'
and they try to train up amateurs into specialty teachers. That is the
crux of the problem!

There is no way a chinese
> student can challenge this teacher on his speciality. The result will
> be to keep quiet, take a lot of notes and figure out how to score high
> marks according to the standard set up by the teacher.
> >
> >> For this purpose learning from someone of a similar age and way of
> >> thinking "modern youth" is far more fun and efrective than to rry to
> >> cram wisdom into the student's heads.
> >
> >It is more fun, of course, but too many Chinese school authorities have
> >mis-used foreign teachers by making them teach like regular teachers.
> >And the gap between reality and expectation is what causes the friction
> >between the camp that emphasizes interaction and the camp that wants to
> >have the students' grades uplifted through using foreign teachers.
>
> It is a natural desire to want to get the best products for the
> cheapest price. The schools advertise themselves as such to draw fee
> paying students. The parents often have to scrape together money to
> send their children there. The teachers are freshmen of unknown
> quality out there for a year or two of adventure. It is the luck of
> the draw no different from the public schools system in the West. You
> get good and you get bad teachers. Since these foreign teachers are
> not certified to be in China's education system it hardly fair to
> expect them to uplift the grades of local students. The local
> education authorities should be the regulating authority to determine
> if the foreign teachers have been misused.
> >
The local authorities can't tell their buds from their elbows. As long
as they have foreign looking people they are satisfied. But the moment
when the parents discover their kids are not learning anything at all
except having fun with foreign teachers, they file complaint with the
schools.

> >These temps have at most two
> >> year stints and new teachers are recruited. That way the students get
> >> exposed to a variety of foreigners from different English speaking
> >> countries..
> >> >
> >As long as the school authority is aware that foreign teachers cannot
> >be expected to teach school cirriculum like the local teachers, this
> >would be fine. As I said, too many local school authorities are
> >expecting what most foreign teachers are capable of. Most foreign
> >teachers in China are not teachers back home but have finished a couple
> >of ESL courses before going to China and calling themselves 'teachers'.
>
> Ok then. The chinese education authorities should insist on them
> being called guest tutors to distinguish them from certified Chinese
> teachers. In the plane to Beijing I sat next to a new recruit going
> to Harbin to teach. He is 34 and had been in and out of the
> university system since high school. He is in his final year for an
> undergrad degree in something (aka not employable) and taking time off
> to teach in China. He makes a living as a part time musician. A very
> interesting character and will indeed impress his students with his
> free spirit life. Don't expect any tips from him how to ace exams.
> >
But the stupid Chinese school authorities expect these free spirited
Americans to act as the serious-looking, highly paid classical English
teachers in the elite schools in Hong Kong and to hire them for a few
thousand RMB a month...

> >
> >Practically all foreign teacher posts in China are temps. This is why
> >i advise those foreign teachers not to overstay in China, otherwise one
> >day when they go home they discover they will have to struggle like
> >immigrants.
>
>
> I think two years is as long as anyone can tolerate being an
> enthusiastic amateur in any situation.

There is nevertheless a story of a happy ending in our school. A
Christian girl from Romania had been working for slave wages in that
school for years and to do so in order to send home some money to her
poor Romanian family. Not only she had to teach but also to attend
English Sunday services. She did that for years. Just last month, a
Chairman of this school recommended her to a Taiwan corporation in
Shanghai as a PR officer. She is now working at wages comparable to
what someone in her capacity could earn in San Francisco! She has
finally had her prayer answered.
Re: The different styles of choosing language teachers [message #227681 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 08:18
ppp  
On 19 Jul 2006 20:20:09 -0700, "fyfpoon [at] gmail.com" <fyfpoon [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>Perhaps this is what foreign teachers should do: that is, to carry out
>interaction and cultural exchange. Unfortunately the school admin
>expected these foreign teachers to help the students pass their high
>school exams and they have been hugely disappointed.


I have been out of the loop on schools for too long to have anything
much to add. I can only try to see the positiive side of a practice
that has been going on for some years and seems to work. The
education authorities would be wise not to tinker with it for it will
involve more than a million schools all over China. Its not broken.
Its informal and flexible enough to evolve on its own. Costs the
government nothing. The school pays according to what it can afford
and gets what it pays for. Prestigious and richer schools can always
hire the best.

I met a 12 year old in Guangzhou who was reported to have done well in
his school - grade year monitor, book prizes, etc. Friend's nephew.
His only free day is Sunday. His daily routine includes after school
tuituion which plus homework takes him up to 10 pm and bedtime. He
seems healthy and well balanced but his over protective mother
wouldn't let him out to play on his own (bad elements). So when we
took him out he didn't know how to take a bus and had never been to
the town centre just 3 miles as the crow flies. However, when we took
the subway (ultramodern, China-made joint project with Siemens) he
was smart enough to count the stations we passed through and quickly
mastered the subway map and fare system by observing. The old
stereotypes are alive and well.

In Beijing I stayed in an apartment on the 23 floor. It overlooked a
junior high school. Each morning at 8 am there was a school assembly
in the schoolyard. The pupils would then do their morning
calisthenics. Wow it was awesome. There were these 300 over students
neatly arrayed in rows and moving in unision to the count of a student
leader. There was a line of student leaders in front of the assembly
who went through the exercise so that the rest could follow. Each
student carried a pair of plastic coated dumbell which they knocked
against each other with each swing of the arms. From the 23rd floor
it looked like a precision squad moving in rythm with each volley of
claps. During the routine several minders would run up and down the
line to correct the errant or lazy pupil. They looked perfect to me.
So how could I but go down to the school to have a close look. Well
on ground level they looked like any group of rambunctious kids. They
ranged from small sized runts to young girls at the door of womanhood.
They weren't quite so in time at eye level but overall it was still
quite an awesome sight to see the whole school exercising in unison.
Vorheriges Thema:Re: how eating meat turns people into animals
Nächstes Thema:陳水扁跟李登輝比爛, 常常比贏! 難怪 Alex Yen 要崇拜陳水扁!
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: So Mai 27 21:04:28 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,07398 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered